Three Sister in a Container

[morm&squeaks]

Hoping someone may be able to offer me a little advice, as generally when it comes to growing veg I don't seem to have much luck, though to be fair I've only really started to try in the last year or two. Bearing that in mind I'm trying to keep my production relatively small this year so I can focus on a just a few things.

I really want to try the native American Three sisters gardening, i.e. corn, with beans using the corn as a support and growing squash underneath to retain moisture and keep weeds down. However I live in a house that only has a paved (thankfully mostly south facing) garden, so anything I grow has to be in containers. I'm still keen to give this a go and just wondered if anyone else has tried this in containers before, more importantly if anyone has any advice, such as the best compost to use in something like this, the bast way to arrange the plants (I'll probably use a large potato grow bag that can maybe hold 30-40L of compost), if everything should be in already (I have seedlings, but not planted out yet), what kind of feed this system would need (I know the beans fix nitrogen which is good for the corn but I assume it will still need feeding), if this is just a pointless venture (which probably still wouldn't put me off )

Btw don't know if it will change anything but I live in the southwest, so quite warm, but tends to be pretty wet!

Many thanks

[Kristen]

if this is just a pointless venture (which probably still wouldn't put me off )

Well ... FWIW I think it is pointless - but don't let me stop you

I think 3-sisters suits America better than here. Hotter summers, and probably poorer land and planted at wider spacing. I think doing it in a container is asking a lot ...

However, one of my bugbears about 3-Sisters is getting in there to pick the Corn and Beans, without treading on all the plants ... and you won't have that problem with Containers, so that might give it the Thumbs Up.

But I think watering and feeding of the plants, in a single container, will stress them sufficiently that you will get mediocre crops of all three, rather than a decent crop if you had them in separate containers.

[AllInContainers]

I grew sweetcorn in containers, with sunflower in a separate container alongside, and then had nasturtiums sprawling through them from a third pot. The sunflower took about 40L on it's own, and the corn were in approx 100L ... and could have done with more (or certainly deeper than the 8" or so they had).

So ... first of all you need a bigger container Secondly I think that as we don't have the hotter summers that Kristen mentioned, my fear would be the corn not keeping ahead of the beans height wise as well a the access issues. Personally I would suggest using separate pots for the crops, although I have found that with growing in containers I can achieve a density of planting and diversity hard to achieve by planting in the ground by putting lots of pots close together, and if it get's a bit too congested, I can just shuffle one of the pots over a few inches. Try doing that with planted crops

By all means go for companion planting for pest management and encouraging pollinators (planting onions in amongst your carrots for example), but I too don't rate the three sisters approach that highly. It's nice as a metaphor of what can be done, but not the best way to grow in my opinion - or at least not in my limited experience

[Bigmallly]

It may not be feasible but are you in a position to maybe lift some of the paving to accommodate some small beds.

[Kristen]

my fear would be the corn not keeping ahead of the beans height wise as well a the access issues

I think that's a very good point. Varieties bred for the UK are shorter, in order to help them mature in our shorter summers, than the USA varieties - and as such don't make great bean poles

[morm&squeaks]

Hmmm, sounds like it may be a bit tricky, am still kind of keen to give it a go, but may have a think. When growing in containers I just wondered what substrate people used, do you generally use compost or soil mixed with compost?? I also wondered what to do with it once the growing season is over, I always assumed it wouldn't really be usable the following year, but don't have anywhere I can compost in my garden, seems like a big shame to get rid of it all, especially as it can cost a fair bit!!!

Thanks very much for the help

[AllInContainers]

I use multipurpose compost, and I mix it with fresh compost and a few slow release feed granules to reuse it the year after. I have noticed it retains more moisture the second year, so you may have to be a little selective as to which plants you use it with, or the mix ratio for ensure it drains as needed

[Potstubsdustbins]

I have always said you can grow anything in a container with the proviso the container is the right size.

For an arrangement such as you suggest I would think the starting size would be a plastic 60 gallon cold water storage tank.

[morm&squeaks]

I have always said you can grow anything in a container with the proviso the container is the right size.

For an arrangement such as you suggest I would think the starting size would be a plastic 60 gallon cold water storage tank.

Wow!! What numbers of each plant would you be expecting to grow in this case?

[Kristen]

When growing in containers I just wondered what substrate people used, do you generally use compost or soil mixed with compost??

I think if you just use Multi Purpose Compost it will tend to compact over the course of the season, so I prefer to use something to keep it open. My choice, for normal "potting on", is 10% [by volume] of Perlite [however, I use a relatively fine grade of Horticulture Perlite; I have used Hydroponic grade, but its much more coarse and I don't think it did as good a job; Perlite from a building supplies company is probably going to be equally coarse; either way, buy it in 100L sacks, as small ones are ridiculous price - 100L should be about £15]

Alternatives would be horticultural grit, or perhaps Vermiculite (although i think that holds a lot of water, rather than just helping with drainage)

Sharp Sand might be OK, I've used that for growing Carrots in containers (50:50 with last-year's compost). Its likely to make the containers heavy - which may help if they would otherwise blow over - e.g. if they have something tall in them, like fruit trees

I also wondered what to do with it once the growing season is over, I always assumed it wouldn't really be usable the following year

It just needs some fertiliser adding back in. You can add something granular to start you off, or a slow release, or just start with a liquid feed regime immediately from "Day One". Don't keep the compost if the crop became diseased ... but that's pretty unlikely.

[rustylady]

The trouble with trying to do the 3 sisters in the UK is that we eat our beans and corn and squash fresh, whereas the American Indians were growing maize and beans and squash to ripen completely and store over winter.

[Bill HH]

Re the beans growing too fast for their corn supports, why not try peas.

[Olorin2001]

The trouble with trying to do the 3 sisters in the UK is that we eat our beans and corn and squash fresh, whereas the American Indians were growing maize and beans and squash to ripen completely and store over winter.

Sort of a different name for companion planting?
And if I remember correctly they planted a fourth sister, to attact pollinating insects.

[Bill HH]

The trouble with trying to do the 3 sisters in the UK is that we eat our beans and corn and squash fresh, whereas the American Indians were growing maize and beans and squash to ripen completely and store over winter.

But did they grow beans up their Totem poles? a wasted opportunity if they didnt.

[Two_Sheds]

(I know the beans fix nitrogen which is good for the corn

they fix nitrogen for themselves though, they don't share it around The nitrogen is stored in nodules on the roots, then used up to make the pods
There's precious little nitrogen left on the roots once the pods have formed