Bare soil...

[Kristen]

All I am saying is there is always two sides to an argument and I'm yet to be convinced.

Yup, no problem with that for sure I have no idea if it is a benefit, just that "folk do it, have done it for ages, and swear by it" ... that may not mean that it is a slam-dunk though

I've found, the amount of organic matter you get from a green manure crop is negligible compared to the nutrients taken from the soil to rot it down

Doesn't seem to me that its about organic matter (although some rooty green manures will open up clay soil perhaps?), but rather about pulling up nutrients, and locking them into the green manure, so that they are released back into the soil, and subsequent crop, when turned in - rather than potentially being leached over-winter.

I can see the benefit of cropping back-to-back, but I don't do that: I have space for a formal 4-season crop rotation, and I'm just plain disorganised so would never have the follow-on crop ready. If I had less space, more organisation skills, and perhaps more time (i.e. at the time that it was needed) I expect I would do a better job in that regard, so for me covering bare soil, particularly over winter, with a green manure is hopefully better than the bare-soil alternative.

Maybe I missed the thrust of your point though?

[Knight of Albion]

You will need to add some form of fertiliser at some point to maintain the level of nutrients, but other than that nothing wrong with bare soil when wintering over.

Letting the rain and frost get to it will do it good.

And as for the issue of weeds. There'll be there regardless. Letting them germinate and expend themselves when the plot is unplanted is going to make life considerably easier than weeding round growing plants.

[Snadger]

You will need to add some form of fertiliser at some point to maintain the level of nutrients, but other than that nothing wrong with bare soil when wintering over.

Letting the rain and frost get to it will do it good.

And as for the issue of weeds. There'll be there regardless. Letting them germinate and expend themselves when the plot is unplanted is going to make life considerably easier than weeding round growing plants.

Don't use fertiliser.Don't need to. Chicen muck,Comfrey and home made compost improve the soil stucture and keeps the soil fertile. No clay in soil either so nothing to be gained by bare soil over winter allowing frost to shatter.Will just leach out nutrients. Silty loam that I have only turns into concrete if left bare.The small amount of weeding required around winter produce is worth it when it comes to harvest time.

In my order of preference for winter beds:-

1. Crop
2. organic mulch
3. Green manure
4. non organic mulch
5. bare soil

Each to there own spose!

[veggiechicken]

Each to there own spose!

Thought that said "Each to their own spouse"

I'll get me coat.....................

[Snadger]

Yup, no problem with that for sure I have no idea if it is a benefit, just that "folk do it, have done it for ages, and swear by it" ... that may not mean that it is a slam-dunk though



Doesn't seem to me that its about organic matter (although some rooty green manures will open up clay soil perhaps?), but rather about pulling up nutrients, and locking them into the green manure, so that they are released back into the soil, and subsequent crop, when turned in - rather than potentially being leached over-winter.

I can see the benefit of cropping back-to-back, but I don't do that: I have space for a formal 4-season crop rotation, and I'm just plain disorganised so would never have the follow-on crop ready. If I had less space, more organisation skills, and perhaps more time (i.e. at the time that it was needed) I expect I would do a better job in that regard, so for me covering bare soil, particularly over winter, with a green manure is hopefully better than the bare-soil alternative.

Maybe I missed the thrust of your point though?

No thrust Kristen.I'm just annoyed with myself that this year I've failed to plan my plot properly.As you say, it does take a lot of planning but is very rewarding to have something edible growing at all times.
I've managed it for the last three years but this year I've failed!

Just out of interest, which winter green manure do you use?

[Snadger]

Thought that said "Each to their own spouse"

I'll get me coat.....................

I thought wife swapping was a thing of the past!

I was once told that if you had pampas grass growing in your garden it signified you were a 'swinger'
That was AFTER I'd planted some!

[Kristen]

No thrust Kristen

No thrust indeed - as I definitely didn't intend to use that word!! No idea what I meant to type (that looks similar, or would be adjacent on the keyboard ...)

which winter green manure do you use?

I have Winter Tares and Forage Rye (heavy clay here) and I also have some Field Beans lying around.

[Kristen]

Thought that said "Each to their own spouse"

I'll get me coat.....................

Get mine too would you mind? I read it like that too! I was going to reply "how boring" and then thought that was a bit risqué so I didn't.

Tell you what, I'll get my own coat shall I?

[Snadger]

No thrust indeed - as I definitely didn't intend to use that word!! No idea what I meant to type (that looks similar, or would be adjacent on the keyboard ...)



I have Winter Tares and Forage Rye (heavy clay here) and I also have some Field Beans lying around.

Just Googled the winter tares as I wasn't familiar with it. I have that stuff growing on my plot as a weed. Didn't realize it was a legume and I've been hand weeding it out!The rye will need to be dug in and turned upside down as cutting it down will be like mowing the lawn won't it?

[Kristen]

The rye will need to be dug in and turned upside down as cutting it down will be like mowing the lawn won't it?

Yup, I reckon. My hope is that it will help with my clay soil - I'll tell you next Spring! This from Greenmanure.co.uk:

"Forage Rye Green Manure is an excellent nitrogen lifter and it can lift and release up to 90% of nitrate to the next crop. Rye has deep penetrative roots that help to break up heavy soils and so improve soil structure. It is brilliant at suppressing weeds as it grows quickly and continues to grow in cold conditions. It suits most soils and copes especially well with heavy clay ones. It does require the correct conditions to germinate in autumn (not too much rain) and watch out for slug/snails who like its tasty leaves and birds who like to nip off the tops!

Forage Rye Green Manure may be fairly hard to dig in after winter especially on heavy clay soils (good exercise though!) If it is difficult either loosen roots one day and then dig in a couple of days later, or cut down foliage and cover with a light excluding mulch such as black plastic for 3 weeks and it will then be easier to dig in. The foliage can also be added to your compost. Sow August to October and dig in during early spring.

Please note that Forage Rye Green Manure releases a chemical that inhibits the growth of small seeds (particularly carrots, parsnips & spinach) so a month should be left after digging it in and before sowing the next crop. It does not pose a problem for transplants or young seedlings."

Forage Rye Green Manure Seeds from Sow Seeds

[Alison]

I just pull the rye up (easy in my somewhat silty soil) and leave it on the surface to die off. Chop it up a bit but mainly just leave it as a much around the next plants.

[veggiechicken]

I thought wife swapping was a thing of the past!

I was once told that if you had pampas grass growing in your garden it signified you were a 'swinger'
That was AFTER I'd planted some!

You grow Pompous Grass For you - it signifies you're a Snadger

Sensible suggestion coming up - I think so anyway!!
Sow spinach or chard, loads and loads of it. Seeds are cheap. Big fleshy leaves, eat some to satisfy your first requirement and cut it down when you need the space, leaving it to compost on the surface. Seems to tick most of your boxes

[Snadger]

You grow Pompous Grass For you - it signifies you're a Snadger

Sensible suggestion coming up - I think so anyway!!
Sow spinach or chard, loads and loads of it. Seeds are cheap. Big fleshy leaves, eat some to satisfy your first requirement and cut it down when you need the space, leaving it to compost on the surface. Seems to tick most of your boxes

Don't like spinach! Probably something to do with my Dad being fixated with Popeye and trying to force feed me with a horrible sloppy mess when I was a bairn.

I know where you're coming from with that perpetual stuff though, it grows like a weed!: Is it frost hardy btw?:

[Shadylane]

Sow spinach or chard, loads and loads of it. Seeds are cheap. Big fleshy leaves, eat some to satisfy your first requirement and cut it down when you need the space, leaving it to compost on the surface. Seems to tick most of your boxes

I love this idea. I'm deffo doing it. Then again, if sown direct, will they make it past first leaf stage with all the slugs on our plot(?)

ETA It is indeed very hardy Snadger. Our plot neighbours grow it(perpetual spinach) all year and it survives every time. Our plot is about 4 degrees colder than everywhere else too.