Turning a lawn into a veg patch - rotivate or DIY digging?

[123Deb321]

I am about to turn part of a very scraggy lawn into veg & flower beds for a house we moved to a few months ago, the lawn has very little actual grass, it looks more like green ground-cover weeds, though no dandelions fortunately, so it will need plenty of new compost etc. I am going to hire a lawn lifter to remove the grass, but do I then...

Rotivate it, due to the soil being so condensed under the lawn?
Or
Dig by hand, due to the roots of perennial weeds, that would end up being scattered everywhere if I rotivated?

Thanks

[Nicos]

We have done similar with an area of field.
The soil was very fertile, but very, very compacted by years of cows compressing it.
OH started digging by hand, but it nearly killed him!......the majority of it was done in the end by rotivating.
As you say, rotivating does chop up and spread weeds so it was done reluctantly.
The following year it was dug by hand and weeded at the same time, which made a huge difference.

I think it depends on your soil type ....and how much energy you have

[Bigmallly]

I think you've answered it yourself Deb, rotavators will chop up perennial roots so digging them out is a better idea. Stack the lawn up in a corner, let it rot down and you'll have lovely compost next year.

[Bigmallly]

Sorry Nic, you're a faster typer than me..................

[123Deb321]

I thought that may be the case. If one of us digs, while the other one weeds straight away, then that may be easier on our backs.

[Aberdeenplotter]

Yups, I agree with BM except perhaps I would trench as I went, skimming the turf off as I went putting it face down in the bottom of the trench. Do it asap so you can use the frost to break down the clods

[123Deb321]

I was going to make a start last week, but then I caught a bug/flu/cold, so that's delayed things, mind you, if I hadn't have been taking it easy, then I wouldn't have discovered this forum

[alldigging]

Growing potatoes “above” the ground.

Grow some potatoes no dig!

[arpoet]

Yes, dig holes, in a row, plant tatties. Best way to clear ground and get a few tatties in return.

[123Deb321]

I didn't realise I could plant taties without digging, that's really interesting

[Kristen]

Lawn lifters don't do a particularly good job, more especially on hard ground, super especially! on stony ground. If you don't want to relay the turf somewhere else it may be "OK", but might be little extra effort (operating a turf lifter is a bit like going 15 rounds with Tyson!) than stripping the turf by hand with a spade.

I too would bury the turf, face down, in the trench as you dig. If you do use a turf lifter you could stack it, in a cube shape, face down (and maybe cover with tarpaulin). Rotted down turf makes lovely "loam", but even then if you wouldn't have a use for it burying it is better - it will hold moisture well, and that will be at a depth where the plant roots are searching.

I doubt you have many perennial weeds to worry about if the grass has been mown regularly, even if not mown "short and stripy".

I wouldn't attempt anything no-dig, particularly on heavy / compacted ground, without an initial dig of some sort. Need to sort the drainage, get some air in and ideally incorporate some organic matter through the depth of the tilled soil. Just putting organic matter on the top (as an initial step) and letting the worms do the work is a slow process, by comparison, particularly on compacted ground.

But you could cover the plot. Personally I would spray it, the once, with Roundup before cultivating the soil, but now is the wrong time of year for that. Covering with Mypex woven weed suppressing membrane (and planting through), or cardboard (and cover that with manure / compost / mulch of some sort) and plant through that would keep you largely weed free. That would be something to consider after you have cultivated the soil (for me its not a substitute to cultivating the soil)

Dunno how accessible your plot is for machinery? but I had mine ploughed by the local farmer - a plough share scraps the top inch or two into the furrow and then the main plough share turns the bulk of the soil over the top of it thus burring turf/weeds/seeds - same as trench-digging and stripping off the turf - only quicker! I then rotavated it to get it "smooth" and haven't dug it since.

Before:


After :

[WendyC]

What sort of area are you talking about? You'd be surprised how much you can dig in a relatively short time. Take it steady and you will still be able to move afterwards. I made all my flower beds by skimming he turf off by hand but it was nothing on the scale of Kristen's plot!

[starloc]

if you are removing the grass, stack it upside down in a pile till it dies and use it as compost, its the base for the john innes composts, shouldnt take that long
I would probably turn the turf over and let it rot down and rotorvate it in a few months, remove with fork any big roots

if you dont want to germinate seeds in it this year by only planting ready germinated plug plants etc, sprinkle the planting area with cornmeal to stop the weeds, cornmeal as well as being a good fertiliser stops seeds germinating by killing them just after they start growing

[Nicos]

Cornmeal??
...tell us more starloc....

[Kristen]

on the scale of Kristen's plot!

Just by way of "scale": mine is about the size of two full size allotments - 250 sq.m.

EDIT: It's 500 sq.m. Sorry!