Do organic seeds matter?

[Dorothy rouse]

I'm always having these kind of arguments with folk Bill, although you think it's 'free range' and 'pay' for free range, you don't really know if it is, I agree with you.

[Kristen]

you don't really know if it is

I take the view that until I (usually The Media, sometimes Government) discover it "isn't" then I assume that it "is".

Beef being Horse meat was a case in point. There were no proper tests in place for whether Beef was Beef and unscrupulous suppliers passed off Horse as Beef ...

But I assume that a certified label, such as Free Range, is enforced and that we would hear about a scandal if it was being widely abused. I am sure there are some rogues in the trade, but the certification / enforcement people would be hung out to dry if that was found to be a significant number

[Alison]

I'm always having these kind of arguments with folk Bill, although you think it's 'free range' and 'pay' for free range, you don't really know if it is, I agree with you.

As I said above, the farm I buy off is a certified organic farm just along the road. The chooks are so free range that they're at risk of being run over when you visit

[stevejohnson53]

In the 60's we were told by the big seed firms to buy/grow the new, all singing, all dancing F1 seeds and forget growing the old usless, unproductive none F1 varieties. F1's were what we should ALL grow they all crop together, identical to each other and the taste.... These super dooper F1 just happened to be a lot dearer to buy, more profit for the big seed firms.... They could not give the older (non F1) varieties away.

Then came the marketing arms of big seed firms telling us to buy Organic seeds, they are better for the planet, bla-bla-bla.... they slap a price premium on the price of organic seeds and making even more profit!

Now the marketing boys and girls have had another think and come up with yet another ploy. Remember the old none F1 varieties from the 60's they couldn't give away... Call them "HERITAGE" and they can slap a price premium to them too, even more profit.

So now F1's, Organic & "Heritage" seeds are grossly marked up in price and we the gardeners have to pay the price. Not much left at a realistic price from the big boy seed sellers. ARE WE BEING CONED?

Rant mode off.

[Martin H]

ARE WE BEING CONED?

I wouldn't say "conned", just "marketed".

The advantage of the crappy old "heritage" seeds is that you can save your own and never pay another penny to a seed company. That's if ultimate yield and uniformity are not important to you.

I can see how organic seeds might cost more to produce, although I'm often surprised at the mark-up.

[Thelma Sanders]

So now F1's, Organic & "Heritage" seeds are grossly marked up in price and we the gardeners have to pay the price. Not much left at a realistic price from the big boy seed sellers.

I don't see Heritage varieties being more expensive, only the F1s are, I find.
Makes me wonder where you are looking?

Some seed companies charge the earth for all their seeds, but you don't have to buy from them.

You can look for your variety and then see if you can get them cheaper on ebay. I get a lot of mine from Premier Seeds Direct on there

(I just don't buy Chinese seeds, I'm not sure the seeds they sell can be trusted)

[Kristen]

ARE WE BEING CONED?

I would say no, but buyer-beware like anything.

Every year there are wacky new varieties that come out - Tomato-Potato graft last year, for example - I see some novelties arrive and quickly disappear, and I am rarely an early-adopter, but in my book it is up to folk what they spend their money on

When I started growing veg with my Mum, more than 40 years ago, we bought "improved" seed varieties (can't remember if they were F1 or not) that solved, or improved, one problem or another.

Over the last handful of years I've grown some F1 varieties that gave me nothing extra, and yes I do agree that some are designed to give a uniform all-at-once crop, but I personally think they are aimed far more at farmers who need a one-time-harvest than home-growers.

Lack of uniformity does mean that the crop may come all-at-once, take Cauliflowers for example. The variety I grow, Candid Charm F1, comes pretty much all at once, but actually that suits me. If I grew an heirloom variety its output might be spread, but I would still need successional sowing as Caulis don't stand in the plot for very long once once ripe. I've seen packets of "Mixed variety" which are sold (Marketed?!!) specifically to spread the season.

I prefer to sow a few each fortnight, at the rate that we use them in Summer, rather than "rely" on having enough variability in a whole row of planting; but I may be over-thinking the problem in assuming that I might, statistically, be lumbered with all-the-same out of a packet of variable seeds!

For me the F1 seeds I choose to buy definitely provide benefit - Flavour, Disease Resistance, Better Yield (although I never choose Yield over Flavour)

I haven't re-bought any of the Turkeys that have not actually delivered a benefit, but I buy my seeds in the Autumn sales, 50p-a-packet, and in the main a packet has enough seeds for me, so buying a larger packet of non-F1, also 50p has no advantage.

Realseeds sells only open-pollinated varieties, and has instructions on how to save your own seed for all the seeds it sells, so that's definitely not a marketing trick to get people to pay more / buy more

This thread on Organic seed has been interesting. I hadn't considered the environmental impact of seed being raised non-organically. I grow organically (not deliberately, just that I don't put any pesticides etc. on my crops at all) and I guess there are many others like me who want to know the provenance of their vegetables

So I'm sat on the fence of the availability of F1 seed giving an organic gardener like me, and many many others, the ability to grow high yielding, disease free, crops as doing less environmental damage than a farmer growing the whole crop non-organically; also compared to me growing a lower yielding / potentially disease-prone variety and having no/reduced crop. Something to get my head around

However, I am more concerned about the lack of genetic diversity in the F1 crops. Bit like the single variety of Bananas we eat being at risk from being wiped out by disease (it already is/has been in moist countries where Panama fungus has flourished). Maybe seed banks are the only real solution to that, in current times ...