new seed viability

[glyn]

just a general question ,im a relative newbie to growing veg , ive sown cauli ,sprouts,calabrese and cabbage recently and had what i think is not very good germination ,any comments or ideas please ? its all new seed and at a constant temperature of about 14 deg c

cauli 21 sown ,13 germinated
calabrese 18 sown, 12 germinated
sprouts 8 sown , 3 germinated
cabbage 12 sown, 10 germinated

all in new compost and at the same depth as per suppliers recommendations, in modules , been sown now for 14 days , the seedlings that have come through are doing well and have been through for about 5 days now, is this ratio normal/acceptable ?

[Alison]

I find brassicas germinate easily if the seed is viable so expect almost 100% germination even on seed which is 5 or 6 years old. However, if you're getting low rates across several types then it is possible that your storage or sowing methods need tweaking. Where are the seeds? They don't need warmth but if they're too cold it will slow them right down.

[glyn]

seeds have been stored at 7-12 deg c since i received then back in december, 2/3rds ish seem to be ok and im pretty careful that all are sown the same !, to be honest i was expecting a near 100% germination ,they are in a double aspect south east/south west facing room on the window cill thats about 13-14 deg at night and about 16-17 max in the day

[Thelma Sanders]

Close to the window on a cold/frosty night, they may get colder than that

[solway cropper]

Agree with Alison, that's a pretty poor germination rate so something's not right. I usually germinate brassicas in my unheated greenhouse which can get pretty chilly overnight this time of year but it doesn't seem to bother them too much. Tough love, I think it's called.

[glyn]

im probably just the other side of the water from you solway , i thought about using the GH its gone down to about 4 deg recently so thought indoors may have been better

[Bigmallly]

Brassicas don't need a lot of heat to germinate. Try a pot in the GH and see if there is any difference.

[Kristen]

Are the seed trays/containers covered? If not the surface can dry out. I use little clear plastic domes on mine (because they have little vents that I open for a few days after germination prior to removing the lids altogether), but sticking the container in a [clear] plastic bag would do the same job.

If covered in this way they won't need any additional water until germination - and condensation on the cover/bag runs back round and gets reabsorbed, and the air in the enclosure is humid. That removes any risk of over watering (provided that the seed compost is not sodden when you start!) and also any wet/dry cycling of watering/leaving, so in that regard they are better off than Mother Nature which rains on them and then suns them dry!!

[Penellype]

Agree that your germination rate is low for brassicas. I find most seed packets tell you to plant the seeds too deeply, for example it is quite usual for brassica seed packets to say 1/2 inch deep. That may be fine if you are sowing in open ground where birds might eat seeds that are too near the surface, but the accepted wisdom is to sow seeds under just the same depth of compost as the size of the seed. Brassica seeds are nowhere near 1/2 an inch!

Also brassicas almost all absolutely hate being warm and wet. If your compost is too wet that could account for the problem.

I would try again, putting the seeds on top of compost that has been wetted then allowed to drain, and then covering the seeds with a thin layer of compost. Put them under a lid as Kristen suggests so that you don't need to water, and they should all germinate within about a week.

[Kristen]

I "bury" my Brassica seeds 1/2" (well ... pretty much that much!) in seed sowing container. Very small seed (can't think of much that fits that bill in Veg - Celeriac maybe?) I cover with a light drizzling of Vermiculite, but for the rest I plant them reasonably deep because otherwise I find that some germinate on the surface and don't properly get their root into the compost, and then ... die

I also think that they get good contact with moisture if "reasonably deep" (compared to being on the surface)

But I've no idea if this is right / better or just different! Lots of ways to do things in gardening of course, and Mother Nature just drops seed from the plant onto the ground, or "through" a Bird / Animal, rather than carefully and exactly 1/2" deep!

One thought:

Seed viability is often tested (by us amateur folk, rather than the Pros) by putting some seed on a damp, but not soaking wet, kitchen paper towel in a Tupperware/sealed box.

If you did that and got poor germination I'd have a word with the seed company.

One other thought: if your seed came from a Big Box Shifting Shed it might be that the conditions it was stored under were poor. My local garden centre Tin Building is like an oven in summer and a blast freezer! in winter - not good conditions for seed storage.

[beeterforit]

I suppose we assume all seed is fresh from seed suppliers
Some seed merchants will and do sell old stock which they mix in with new After all there only there to make money
Its tough when a batch goes wrong, and their war cry is "it must be your fault"
If you complain your very lucky to get a reply

[Kristen]

Here we go again ...

Some seed merchants will and do sell old stock which they mix in with new After all there only there to make money

DEFRA registered companies are obliged to sell Agricultural and Vegetable seed that meets prescribed germination requirements which are laid down by DEFRA (or to label the packet as such where that germination rate is not achieved), they also have to keep samples of seed (2 years I think) so that they can be held to account if they fail in that regard.

Its tough when a batch goes wrong, and their war cry is "it must be your fault"
If you complain your very lucky to get a reply

On the contrary, reputable seed companies will provide "service". Usually by replacing the faulty packet (although sometimes by providing a money-off voucher, and in some cases that is a relatively short-life voucher, but its not "lucky if you get a reply")

[Alison]

Agree totally with what Kristen has said, seed companies in the UK are bound by UK law and can and are held accountable for illegal practices. Assuming the seeds weren't from some dubious and untraceable source it is extremely unlikely that it is deliberate mal practice. It is however possible that a bad batch occurs or they are poorly stored in transit or storage.

[beeterforit]

Rules will always be broken when there is money involved
Get real please

[Thelma Sanders]

and people never make mistakes when sowing?

Is it always the seed suppliers fault? - seems so according to you, hardly a fair assessment imo

I've had sweet pea seeds not germinate and received replacement seeds from the company involved.....only to realise that it was mice that took the first batch from the pots in the greenhouse