Bordeaux Mixture & Bayer - approval withdrawn

[Hazel at the Hill]

So around August/Sept I will be watching the leaves and blight maps like a hawk.

Like a Sparrowhawk, in fact.

I've given up growing tommies at the Hill as there is just such a concentration of crops that blight is likely whatever - it' heartbreaking to have all those plants nurtured from seed, cosseted and planted out, to see them thrive then - WHAM - blight smacks the whole lot down. It's a compromise, as tomatoes in buckets here in the courtyard garden tend to split as I'm a bit rubbish at watering the buckets properly.

Spuds I grow early, and get up early (or cut down and leave until early winter to dig up), and I've (may have been lucky?) not to have a problem. I'm growing a new apparently tasty blight resistant variety called Corolus this year - will report back on results.

[Nicos]

This was written 5 years ago, and it's American...but it's enough to make your toes curl....

Organic Management of Late Blight of Potato and Tomato with Copper Products - eXtension

[kathyd]

If Admin see citing a source of news as such a threat to their readership that there is a blanket ban I very much doubt there is any point in pm-ing Admin. I don't like not being able to credit where I read something unless it's GYO. There's no point carrying on this part of the thread - I'll not post things I've read elsewhere here, I'll do it on other forums.

Any tips on managing late blight most welcome though.

I actually thought that you were 'supposed' to acknowledge sources of information firstly because it's good manners to do so, and secondly to avoid accusations of plagiarism?

[bearded bloke]

I actually thought that you were 'supposed' to acknowledge sources of information firstly because it's good manners to do so, and secondly to avoid accusations of plagiarism?

Indeed it is good manners to acknowledge the work of others, however .... I read something in a magazine .... is not actually a quote, the further research actually was a quote & has been left intact....

Just found this buried on the RHS website in an article on bacterial canker, but most of the other advice articles, including the fungicide one for home gardeners, haven't been updated.

*NB: The following products are being withdrawn:
Bordeaux Mixture (Vitax) is being withdrawn and cannot be sold after the 30th November 2014 and remaining stocks must be used or disposed of before the 30th November 2015.

Copper oxychloride (Bayer Garden Fruit and Vegetable Disease Control) is being withdrawn and cannot be sold after the 30th November 2014 and remaining stocks must be used or disposed of before the 30th November 2015.

Again, if you are unhappy with my moderation you also are quite welcome to address the matter with a member of the forum Administrators

[Kristen]

Any tips on managing late blight most welcome though.

Grow a blight resistant (or immune) variety? Can't speak for possible loss of flavour though. Suttons have a, supposedly, Blight-immune tomato variety available from this year (plants this year, seeds next I believe). Not cheap as a plant, but you could take side-shoot cuttings off a single parent plant I suppose?

[sparrow100]

I actually thought that you were 'supposed' to acknowledge sources of information firstly because it's good manners to do so, and secondly to avoid accusations of plagiarism?

I absolutely agree. The magazine article statement is pretty much the same as the quote from the RHS. And I wouldn't have looked for the latter if I hadn't read the former. It's just selective editing because IMO the site has its rules set by a profit-focused company anxious about any competition. Shame though.

[Mark Lottie]

I sprayed my potatoes with aspirin last year and got no blight; which we normally do.

I only did it 3 times over a month about a month before harvest. Completely forgot. Going to try on tomatoes this year

[Kristen]

It's just selective editing because IMO the site has its rules set by a profit-focused company anxious about any competition.

You and I have the benefit of this service for free. Someone has to pay to host and maintain it - IME we are talking £thousands per annum. If we were paying for the service things would be different but given that we aren't I never quote links from rival forums, magazines, or anything else which might be perceived as a competitor which I see as just being common courtesy.

[marchogaeth]

The local organic gardeners here string copper wires over their plants so the rain drips off the wire and onto the plants...apparently they have been doing it for years as an alternative to Bordeaux mixture.
It'll be strange seeing young plants for sale here not covered in the fine blue powder if it is banned.

I'm surprised that rain is still acid enough to do that.

Maybe try the aspirin, probably not as effective but better than nothing

"A recent study by the US Department of Agriculture, found that the use of an aspirin spray, which can be made at home, resulted in a 47 per cent reduction in blight.

I'm only growing blight resistant plants outdoors, ive bought a few 'crimson crush' tomato plants which claims to be the most blight resistant variety there is, they weren't cheap but the plan is to take sideshoots to get multiple plants and then at the end of the year take cuttings for next year.

There were a couple of threads here last year on this. I made a brew using willow bark and leaves as a general growth promoter for my toms. Might try it on the potatoes this year.
http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...rin_77779.html
http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...ray_80518.html

Spuds I grow early, and get up early (or cut down and leave until early winter to dig up), and I've (may have been lucky?) not to have a problem. I'm growing a new apparently tasty blight resistant variety called Corolus this year - will report back on results.

I have grow Sarpo Mira and Axona, they are definitely blight resistant and cropped really well for me. However, I found them very prone to slug damage because they grew late into the season so I would still have to harvest by September I think. Although we didn't mind the taste, we did find the skins almost impossibly hard when they were baked no matter how we did it and for that reason I won't be growing them again.

I grow second earlies and harvest as soon as the blight hits but I am next door to my plot and can check every day. I find Blightwatch invaluable as a heads up although it's disheartening when you get full Smith's in May!

As for all the moderating stuff. Goodness knows I'm not the best at pouring oil on troubled water but I think I take the same basic approach as Kristen. There have to be rules so they need to be B&W. If this thread had gone on to rubbish the other magazine's article then they might not have been very happy. A few years ago, I queried why a large advertiser's staff had been allowed to post when other, often smaller organisations were not allowed to have their staff on here. The mod I dealt with actually took the view that as they were a large advertiser they "shouldn't be upset". When I expressed the view that this seemed a little awry, they got very "sniffy" (or substitute aggressive/over assertive/******). However, in their high dudgeon it was referred to Admin who immediately dealt with it in a fair but appropriate way. I think since then there has been a thorough overhaul of the thread rules and the mods roles. I am glad it's like it is now even if it does sometimes seem bit inflexible or un-necessarily strict.

[Kristen]

I'm surprised that rain is still acid enough to do that.

hadn't thought about the need for rain to be acid enough ... but (tangentially!) I have heard of stretch a copper wire along the apex of a roof to prevent moss growing on the roof - suppose some copper must dissolve? Maybe it only takes an atom or two to be effective - which is, perhaps, all the more worry about copper build-up in the soil (copper sulphate dissolves easily, so might be thought to leech easily from soil, but I read that it readily binds to soil particles and thus is retained)

I wear a copper bangle for Rheumatism in my fingers. Seems to be effective - but I don't know how! or how much it dissolves

[Nicos]

Thanks for that comment marchogaeth.

The rules have evolved on here since I first joined often in response to different situations arising over the past few years.
I like to think that the rules we now adhere to are in fact way more fair to everyone on here with everyone being treated equally.
There will always be the odd hicup...and peeps can always pm each other if they want to know the source of an article

And as Kristen says- it's free for us all...even our mod time!

[veggiechicken]

Bordeaux mixture (Vitax) is still on sale https://www.quickcrop.co.uk/product/...x-mixture-175g
...........just saying

[veggiechicken]

*NB: The following products are being withdrawn:
Bordeaux Mixture (Vitax) is being withdrawn and cannot be sold after the 30th November 2014 and remaining stocks must be used or disposed of before the 30th November 2015.

Copper oxychloride (Bayer Garden Fruit and Vegetable Disease Control) is being withdrawn and cannot be sold after the 30th November 2014 and remaining stocks must be used or disposed of before the 30th November 2015.

Plenty of the Bayer product on sale too eg http://www.homebase.co.uk/en/homebas...sachets-172302

There seems to be some misleading info out there!

[mothhawk]

I think I've posted this before, but did you know Bordeaux mixture was invented by a French farmer to stop passers-by eating his grapes where they grew close to the road? Not as a fungicide at all

[Martin H]

I recall from school that rainwater is always slightly acidic because there is carbon dioxide dissolved in the water. This makes weak carbonic acid (H2O + CO2 = H2CO3). I guess this will react with the copper wire to make copper carbonate, although I did drop chemistry after O-level

I expect the sulphuric acid in acid rain would speed things along a bit though.