Best grafted tomato???

[bobbin]

Id like to try a grafted tomato or two but I'm not that familiar with the varieties bar one.
Has anyone had success with :-

(Cherry Tom- )Sweet petit
Elegance
Aviditas
Orangino
Belriccio
Giulietta. For sale in Waitrose and a local garden centre. I have read trial results
and they seem very favourable. With reports of much bigger yields of tomatoes. I grew one such plant last year but I can't say I had much success as I don't have the best of greenhouses. Plus my tomato plants succumbed to caterpillars!
Does anyone out there have any advice as I need to get buying!

[AlanP]

To be quite honest with you bobbin, I cant see the point in buying grafted toms, just another way of extracting money out of peeps, but I was born in Yorkshire

Seeds cost very little and give good results, I don't even buy seed now, I save my own and have got quite a nice strain now.

Alan

[Alison]

I can see if you've only got room for one or two then they might be worth the investment but personally I like lots of different types and from what I've read you get more fruit as the plants are bigger, in which case have two normal plants which are far cheaper and available in many more varieties.

[Thelma Sanders]

Plus my tomato plants succumbed to caterpillars!

Growing a grafted tomato plant won't solve that problem, I'm afraid

[marchogaeth]

To be quite honest with you bobbin, I cant see the point in buying grafted toms, just another way of extracting money out of peeps, but I was born in Yorkshire

Seeds cost very little and give good results, I don't even buy seed now, I save my own and have got quite a nice strain now.

Alan

I read an article about how they are produced and was shocked by how high their energy cost is. That just feels wrong to me.

[Bigmallly]

I can't see the point myself, not just for one season. Now if they developed a Perennial grafted Tom, I may be interested.

[bobbin]

Ooh I'm surprised at the response folks. The trial reported a big increase in yield I guess because they are
maybe a stronger plant. There are lots of grafted plants etc out there. Don't think it's just a ploy to extract more cash. Just a different type of plant. Maybe I'll give it a miss anyway. I have bought some standard ones. Hmm,-I do realise a grafted plant won't stop caterpillars ! Thanks all.

[Kristen]

I cant see the point in buying grafted toms, just another way of extracting money out of peeps ...

Seeds cost very little and give good results

I think it depends on a number of things:

Space available in greenhouse. If limited space then highest possible yield is a bonus. A plant costing £2 instead of 10p only has to bear £1.90 of extra fruit to break-even. Grafted Plants are soon "on offer" in my local garden centre, so I can't see them being much more expensive than any other plant (for anyone buying plants and prepared to wait a couple of weeks ).

Growing from seed requires the space / temperature / light to raise the seedlings early-ish. They need to be kept above 10C, so an unheated greenhouse won't do. Given how many tomato plants there are in my local garden centre (grafted or not ) many people must be growing from plants, rather than seeds, so it might be "us lot on forums like this" who are more likely to be growing from seed than Mr & Mrs Average Tomato Grower??.

The other major advantage of grafted plants is being able to grow them year-after-year in the same soil in a greenhouse border, without getting various sick-soil syndromes, and avoiding having to change the soil. For me that would be a huge advantage and definitely worth a couple of £quid a plant - but luckily I'm still fit enough to be able to change the soil in my greenhouse annually, and I really need the lovely friable stuff that comes out of the greenhouse borders at the end of the year to pot up other stuff I grow!

I have chums who graft their own tomatoes. They choose a rootstock specifically for the soil conditions they have (and disease resistance they want) and then whatever variety of Tomato they want for the scion - so they aren't restricted on choice for varieties (which is another main advantage of growing from seed). So for canny Yorkshire folk the advantages of grafted plants can be had without the cost (although seed of Rootstock is not exactly cheap ...)

I read an article about how they are produced and was shocked by how high their energy cost is. That just feels wrong to me.

Are grafted tomatoes different in this regard? or would this apply to any tomato plant bought from garden centre at this time of year? (i.e. raised in a heated greenhouse, or perhaps raised indoors under artificial light)

[marchogaeth]

A plant costing £2 instead of 10p only has to bear £1.90 of extra fruit to break-even. Grafted Plants are soon "on offer" in my local garden centre, so I can't see them being much more expensive than any other plant.

Growing from seed requires the space / temperature / light to raise the seedlings early-ish. They need to be kept above 10C, so an unheated greenhouse won't do. Given how many tomato plants there are in my local garden centre (grafted or not ) many people must be growing from plants, rather than seeds, so it might be "us lot on forums like this" who are more likely to be growing from seed than Mr & Mrs Average Tomato Grower??.

Mea culpa, last time I looked in a a catalogue they were £5-6 a plant at least.

The other major advantage of grafted plants is being able to grow them year-after-year in the same soil in a greenhouse border, without getting various sick-soil syndromes, and avoiding having to change the soil. For me that would be a huge advantage and definitely worth a couple of £quid a plant - but luckily I'm still fit enough to be able to change the soil in my greenhouse annually, and I really need the lovely friable stuff that comes out of the greenhouse borders at the end of the year to pot up other stuff I grow!

This is news to me so thanks. Why is this the case, please?

I have chums who graft their own tomatoes. They choose a rootstock specifically for the soil conditions they have (and disease resistance they want) and then whatever variety of Tomato they want for the scion - so they aren't restricted on choice for varieties (which is another main advantage of growing from seed). So for canny Yorkshire folk the advantages of grafted plants can be had without the cost (although seed of Rootstock is not exactly cheap ...)

Any links/advice on how to do this?

I read an article about how they are produced and was shocked by how high their energy cost is. That just feels wrong to me.

Are grafted tomatoes different in this regard? or would this apply to any tomato plant bought from garden centre at this time of year? (i.e. raised in a heated greenhouse, or perhaps raised indoors under artificial light)

Well, I am relying on one fairly detailed article which was very positive about them. It was a couple of years ago so it's possible things have moved on and become cheaper but it was huge because of temperature/light control (way more than just plants) all the chemicals involved etc etc. It just put me off completely as no matter how organic you are once you get something like that it's not a "sustainable" plant. However, thanks for the intellectual challenge (seriously), I am prepared to change my mind and learn!

[Sarico]

some of my friend have a graft tomato in Italy that is called tree tomato. They actually graft few plant on the rootstock of a solanum tarvum a get a bumper crop from it. They also do in a way that is half Tomato and half aubergine. But in there the plant don't need to go in greenhouse to grow and can overwinter for the next year because is a perennial.

[Kristen]

Mea culpa, last time I looked in a a catalogue they were £5-6 a plant at least.

Wow! That would be outrageous. Not seen them at that price in my local garden centre (even before the Sale starts!) ... the new blight-proof ones ("crimson crush" IIRC??) are probably that price? and I expect there are other speciality ones that might be dear too ... but I agree £5-6 would be a lot for a tomato plant.

This is news to me so thanks. Why is this the case, please?

Sorry, not sure which bit you were referring to (re changing soil / soil-sickness / soil at end of season being "lovely" )

Any links/advice on how to do this?

I don't know (and don't remember reading on this forum) of anyone that does it, but I have read of several on another gardening forum who do. A Google might find them

Seed for Rootstock available from Moles Seeds. There are some good videos on YouTube - both of amateurs showing how they do it, and of machines that do it on a conveyor belt (which I find mesmerising to watch!)

Some issues to consider are:

Rootstock and Scion have to be same diameter. This might require that you sow Scion earlier (and in year one, at least, have to sow lots (both Scion and Rootstock), at intervals, to then get lucky with same-diameter plants, not to mention being able to experiment and overcome some hamfistedness I expect!

Plant is very weak after grafting. The whole thing is supported by a "clip", but they need to be in a plastic-tent (or a plastic bag) with very high humidity for some days to stay alive long enough for the graft to heal.

Well, I am relying on one fairly detailed article which was very positive about them. It was a couple of years ago so it's possible things have moved on and become cheaper but it was huge because of temperature/light control (way more than just plants) all the chemicals involved etc etc. It just put me off completely as no matter how organic you are once you get something like that it's not a "sustainable" plant. However, thanks for the intellectual challenge (seriously), I am prepared to change my mind and learn!

Interesting. There is definitely a "high humidity tent" requirement after grafting, but I'm struggling to think of reasons why grafted plants would need more energy - I expect that regular Tomato Plants sold as mailorder Plugs or in Garden Centres are grown with very high energy inputs. Not sure I mind that (environmentally speaking) as the amateur grower then produces all the Tomatoes they need for the season - it must be cheaper (environmentally) to make & transport a small plant than it is to grow the plant to maturity and then ship the (much heavier and more bulky) produce across the country (or, worse!, across the world!) to the supermarket and then the shopper drive to the shop to buy some (yeah, I know, they would buy some other things at the same time )

Any chemicals used in the process would be a huge concern for me too, like you, and is the main reason I grow-my-own. But ... I eat out at friends houses, and restaurants ... and I haven't, yet!!!!!, started stipulating that they must cook the vegetables for my meal that I bring with me!!!! I am VERY tempted to try that though - the look on people's faces would be PRICELESS! "You eat vegetables that you BUY? You can NOT be SERIOUS?" !!!!

[marchogaeth]

The bit that was new was that they don't need fresh soil every year - wondered why.

[Kristen]

I think it is because the rootstock is better able to take up nutrients, perhaps simply because it is more vigorous? e.g. wild tomato, and related species, are used for rootstock. They may also have good disease resistance, so less chance of the plants succumbing to disease - which would be more likely to build up in soil that was not changed regularly and then effect a conventional Tomato crop.

I guess the other possibility, which might be of interest to amateur gardeners, would be to graft an Heirloom variety onto a vigorous rootstock - which would increase the vigour, and yield, of the heirloom variety - and give it some additional disease resistance (depending on rootstock). I can imagine it is also a benefit to Organic growers - more vigorous, so less demanding on fertilisers and pesticides, so easier to grow organically.

[Scarlet]

^^^really interested in this...I'd love not to have to barrow out the dirt in the GH every year. Will have to google later.

[Kristen]

This Telegraph article is a bit out of date, so better info may be available, but I think it is quite a good summary.

Why grafting is the secret to great fruit and vegetables - Telegraph

Quote: "the rootstock most often used for grafted tomatoes is resistant to a whole range of soil-borne diseases. For the disease nerds out there, these are: Cladosporium, Verticillium, two races of Fusarium, crown rot, root rot, root eelworm, corky root rot and stem rot, plus tomato mosaic virus. So even if the diseases are in your soil, your plants will not be affected and you will still get a good crop."

Note that you should NOT plant grafted Tomatoes deep - the Scion can still catch soil- borne diseases if you plant deep and it grows its own roots

EDIT: Ha! The article says that