Desiree or Charlotte? And are they normal??

[Bigmallly]

Good luck Bario, I hope you get to the bottom of this.

[bario1]

Nicos - I like your rigorous scientific approach. I'll try and answer your questions.

Used commercial compost - yes, I'm sure this would cause no problem, it's just the Asda mpc I used to grow spuds in barrels last year.

My own compost - this was a mix of leaf mould, straw, grass clippings and manure collected locally, all piled in big pallet bins. I've never used weed killer on my lawn (or my plot), and I grew courgettes in these bins last summer without any issues, then left over winter before digging out and adding to my mix this year.

Commercial compost - this was just Verve mpc I'm sure it'd be sterile - my Brassicas are thriving in it.

Well rotted manure - horse, from a local stables, same place I've had it from for the last 3 years without any issues. The manure is rotted for one year this time (was previously rotted for two years), and it's rotted with wood pellet bedding rather than straw. I have emailed the lady who offers the manure (for free) asking if she's aware of any treatment to the horses' field, but I haven't heard back. I'm not sure how often she checks her mail.

Potato fertiliser pellets - these were from the pound store, so maybe they are poor quality, but I only threw a handful into each bag. The bags are about 50cm cubed and about 75% full. The barrels are 50 litres.

I now suspect that my initial thought that only one variety of spud was affected was wrong. Out of 13 bags, 9 were affected, so both Charlotte and Desiree must have been in them. Also, I now see the same kind of twisted, distorted new growth on my hanging basket tomato which is in basically the same mix (minus the potato fertiliser pellets). These will need binned as well I guess.

Can I put a couple of pumpkin seedlings in my courgette bed as a test? Would that give me immediate results?

[fishpond]

"Can I put a couple of pumpkin seedlings in my courgette bed as a test? Would that give me immediate results?"

Do you need to, as you have got a Tomato that is showing signs.
Maybe the manure was too strong/unrotted.

Note:-Do not follow potatoes with anything from the same family. ie Tomatoes.

[Nicos]

More piccies?

Doesn't sound good does it?


I wonder if it was in the horse manure-it could be that they've eaten affected hay- or straw- and the owners have no idea?????

[bario1]

I think it's fair to say the manure is the prime suspect.

[veggiechicken]

I'm so sorry to read this, Bario
Do you know anyone else who has manure from the same stables?

[Scarlet]

I think I would try to call the stables, you may be able to stop other people using it. If it's local and she's giving the stuff free it may end up on loads of other peeps plots.

[marchogaeth]

I wonder if it was in the horse manure-it could be that they've eaten affected hay- or straw- and the owners have no idea?????

If they are bedded on wood, then this would have been my main suspect if it was not in all the muck. If Bario is finding it in all the manure it could be all the forage or the owner could have done all the grass at the stables. Probably not something done every year.

[Nicos]

I'd certainly contact the stables- it may have occurred accidentally and they have no idea.

[Scarlet]

Yes, most people that don't grow veg wouldn't even think about it!

[bario1]

Here's some more pics, dunno if they're any better really...

[Potstubsdustbins]

It certainly looks like the same as other pics put up by Zaz I think.

One word BUMMER!!!!

[starloc]

There is a lot about it on this link

Manure - Contamination due to hormonal herbicide

On this page of the same site

Manure - advice on using manure based on our experiences

They say...... courgettes, squash, sweetcorn and brasicas grew fine in contaminated soil

Weather they are safe to eat....or not.....Hmmmmm

Manufacturers of the weedkiller would probably say they were!

[bario1]

Having read the links posted above by Starloc, I am convinced this is aminopyralid damage.

[marchogaeth]

This is the link to the farmers' leaflet which is actually informative reading (see below)

"Stock exclusion 7 days – only use on grazing ground grazed by cattle or sheep
Cutting interval - Do not use Forefront T on fields to be cut for silage, hay or haylage unless it is after the last cut
Manure - If manure is generated, keep on farm and apply to grazing grassland
Clover Will be damaged; re-introduce after 4 months"

Interestingly (well relatively), it should not be in hay or silage.
More interesting and hopeful is the idea that clover can be reintroduced after 4 months as I thought once it was in your soil you were stuffed.

NB the grazing exclusion doesn't mention horses - presumably because they are not considered meat/milk producers.

My bet is your stable owner sprayed to control ragwort, so you could specifically ask this. If they then grazed because there is no contra indication then the excrement would be full of the stuff - poor old horses.

Ragwort is a real problem weed on land grazed exclusively by horses because it doesn't get grazed off by other stock when it is small, generally isn't pulled by the land owner (generalisation I know - apologises to all those who are diligent - like me (and we pull it from all our hay just in case it gets fed to horses)) and yet is extremely poisonous/lethal if horses ingest it - if it gets knocked over and wilts they will eat it.

Here are the contact details for Dow:-

Dow AgroSciences Ltd, Latchmore Court, Brand Street, HITCHIN, Herts, SG5 1NH

Telephone: 01462 457272

Fax: 01462 426605

E-mail: DowAgroSciencesUK@dow.com

Maybe it would be worth sending them your pictures and asking them what they think. They must have been asked before.

I was typing this while Starloc et al were posting - sorry if it looks like it's ignored you both.