Soil specialists?

[ESBkevin]

Well I'm back from hollibobs and turning my attention to a problem I might have eluded to before.

My peas won't grow on one half of my allotment, I'm now convinced it's the soil and heres why.
In the centre strip of this plot (new to me this year) I planted green manure which was legume based and it hardly sprouted and was quite overwhelmed by weeds despite attempts to hand weed. I gave up and rotavated it in. I assumed I'd been too early and the cold did for it.
I planted a row of peas beside that strip, 35 feet long 3 seeds wide every two inches. I got TWO plants! Again I thought I was a bit early perhaps?
So I replanted in the same place again 5 weeks later and still got poor germination.
I transplanted some indoor propagated peas beside this row and they struggled to produce much. and the growth was slow and stunted.
I planted dwarf french beans where the green manure was and could only start picking them in 10 August, although after a slow start they were better but not as good as last years planting on the other half of the plot.
Courgettes and Butternut squash plants are of course rampant on the same plot.
Carrots beside the peas (a few feet away) germinated OK but despite marrigold companion planting they all yellowed and died after thinning (done late evening and all the thinnings removed from site). It may be a red herring and carrot fly is the cause but I mention it anyway.
Finally I planted a late row of peas about 15 feet long where the green manuar had been. Germination was fair but growth was very stunted (6" max) and I got a dozen pods if that. On the same day I planted from the same packet on the other half plot and got excellent germination and am still picking peas from 3ft high vines.

So I'm thinking it has to be the soil right? This half of the plot I took on this year and it had been fallow a couple of years except all the farm muck was delivered to that point for all the plot holders to access. Before taking it on I gave it some glyphosate and rotavated it to keep it clean.
So it has had lots of farm muck and topped up with fish blood and bone meal before planting. I even gave it some epson salts to see if that would help!

So what to do next, get a professional analysis? Put spuds in that bit (my plan was this anyway). I have some clover based green manure which was planned for too so that might be good.

Anyone have any ideas or tips?

[veggiechicken]

Has the "farm muck" caused problems for anyone else who has used it?

[Hazel at the Hill]

My guess that that all that horse muck has made the soil acidic - I'd try forking in a dressing of lime to sweeten the soil, and leave over winter; then plant your spuds as planned.

[ESBkevin]

Good question VC, the fact that the heap stood on this piece of land for a few weeks each year and there was plenty left over after this years share out which I spread to disperse so I could commence cultivations makes that a moot point. Also some of the excess was spread on the half plot that successfully grew peas (and much else).

Hazel, I have a simple probe acidity tester that shows it pretty neutral all over (unless I'm doing it wrong). I have some lime and wood ash to spread so maybe that.

This years muck came from a different farm so not sure if that's relevant. It was well rotted and crumbly black stuff, sadly with a lot of mature fat hen seeded all over was a potential problem.

It's a head scratcher for sure.

[mothhawk]

What weeds overwhelmed your green manure? You can often tell what the soil is like/what it needs, by which weeds grow well and which don't.

[Jungle Jane]

Do you know if alliums had been planted in that area & could there be any remains mixed into the soil? They're said to stunt the growth of legumes?

[ESBkevin]

Mothhawk thank you. The dominant weed was brought in with the last muck and that was fat hen, I had a lovely crop of that for the hoe and notably deadly nightshade which is potato or tomato related I believe.

JJ the area has been fallow for at least two seasons and treated to a spray and rotavate on occasion to keep it manageable. Previous tenent was by all accounts a good steward of the land but failing health stopped him.

[Scarlet]

I'm now convinced it's the soil and heres why.
In the centre strip of this plot (new to me this year) I planted green manure which was legume based and it hardly sprouted and was quite overwhelmed by weeds despite attempts to hand weed.

If you can grow weeds there's nothing nasty there.

I planted a row of peas beside that strip, 35 feet long 3 seeds wide every two inches. I got TWO plants! Again I thought I was a bit early perhaps?

You could have been too early, it was a slow Spring for everyone, the seeds could have been old, got cold and rotted or the mice could have taken them.

So I replanted in the same place again 5 weeks later and still got poor germination.

More mice? Again the weather could be to blame. Peas and beans will rot in cold wet soil.

I transplanted some indoor propagated peas beside this row and they struggled to produce much. and the growth was slow and stunted.
I planted dwarf french beans where the green manure was and could only start picking them in 10 August, although after a slow start they were better but not as good as last years planting on the other half of the plot.

It's been the worse year ive had in a long time for beans, it was too cold and wet in the Spring. june wasn't much better. Thankfully I planted a crop in the GH that kept us going. My pot grown beans once planted out were really slow to get going and the outside ones have done little. I've had a few crops but nothing like carrier bags full that I've had in past years.

It doesn't sound like a problem from manure if you can grow weeds. It could be just plain bad luck with the weather, some crops thrive some don't. Too much competition with weeds or too acidic as Hazel has suggested. I'd just go and buy a soil testing kit.

[mothhawk]

Fat hen is extremely competitive and can cause as much as 50% crop loss in commercial fields. It likes very rich soil so must be very happy where the manure heap's been. It's also very sneaky in that it produces different types of seeds, some with thin coats, which germinate very quickly when they get into the soil, and some with thick coats, that happily stay buried for 20 years before germinating

Don't compost any with seed heads on! Also don't feed to any poultry or animals, because while fat hen is perfectly palatable, digestion will not destroy the seeds which pass straight through then germinate in their own little pile of "compost".

Apparently the best and easiest way to keep it under control is to flame weed young seedlings, since their waxy leaves stop any herbicide sticking, and hand weeding simply disturbs the soil and allows more seeds to germinate.

Probably the best things to grow in that spot would be either potatoes or big cabbages, to reduce the fertility a bit, and also try to cut out the light to the F.H. Or put a light smothering mulch on and plant through.

[Alison]

You can eat Fat Hen, use the young leaves like spinach.

[Scarlet]

Or put a light smothering mulch on and plant through.

I have a fat hen problem I use wet newspapers covered in grass clippings as a mulch.

[mothhawk]

I have a fat hen problem I use wet newspapers covered in grass clippings as a mulch.

Of course the only downside to that is it doesn't remove the seeds lurking underground for the next 20 years, just waiting for that chink of light.....



.....But on the other hand, the idea of spending the next 20 years hoeing fat hen once a fortnight doesn't bear thinking about either.

edit: just had a goggle, and it'll only take 6 years of hoeing to be 99% clear.

So they say.

Hmm......

[Scarlet]

Yes, but now I use a mulch I don't have to hoe at all! I also put newspapers down on the GH floor. Life is too short for weeding.

[veggiechicken]

I have a fat hen problem I use wet newspapers covered in grass clippings as a mulch.

Me too Scarlet. I've tried wet newspapers covered in grass clippings but I just look ridiculous. Maybe I should try dieting


Just ignore me..................as you were

[Snadger]

If i may tangentialise............ My hens don't like 'Fat hen' so why call it sodding fat hen?