Thin end of the wedge?

[Bill HH]

I don't like GM. We don't know enough about it.

I don't agree with man made global warming. In the 60s they were telling us to prepare for a mini ice age. That theory has raised its head again recently.

I don't agree with most dietary recommendations. Butter was bad, eat man made spread, butter is now better for you than man made spread.

I don't agree with most healthy living options after all the man who invented jogging died young whilst err jogging.

Why this somewhat strange mind set? I do believe in human nature.

So called scientists work for their paymaster and human nature dictates they will do their very best to give said paymaster what he wants.

I am looking forward to the day they discover smoking is good for you.

[Snadger]

Sorry if I've opened up a can of worms Mods.

I'm just going to go 'Cold turkey' this year and see if I can do without F1's.

An interesting little experiment which I am personally looking forward to.

[veggiechicken]

Its interesting to read all the different views on this. I don't know enough about the subject to express an opinion so I'll leave that to others who do!
Good luck with going Cold turkey, Snadger, I don't grow many F1s myself, some cucurbits, a tomato or two, not much else.

[Alison]

Sorry if I've opened up a can of worms Mods.

I'm just going to go 'Cold turkey' this year and see if I can do without F1's.

An interesting little experiment which I am personally looking forward to.

It's very easy. I didn't used to grow any but do now for sweetcorn but think that's it.

[Penellype]

With regard to the F1s, grow them if you like that variety best, or if it has features that you can't get elsewhere. My favourite tomato is Sungold and that is F1 - you can't get anything like it with the open pollinated varieties.

The scientist in me has to answer the "global warming" comment above. Its not a theory, its not a maybe. It is happening now. I saw a very good word for it posted on Twitter today - "Climatastrophe". There will still be variation in temperatures from year to year, it does not mean a straight line to hotter and hotter years (although next year will be hotter than the record breaking 2015 because of El Nino). We could even have another mini ice age - its not incompatible with climate change to increased global temperatures overall.

Ask yourself this: Do I want my children and grandchildren to hate my generation because we knew about climate change and the disastrous consequences of doing nothing, and yet we still did nothing until it was far too late to stop them from suffering from its results?

Ok, I'll get off my hobby horse now and refrain from giving examples.

[sparrow100]

I agree Snadger. I don't like the ever-increasing trend for some seed merchants and magazines to push F1s, which means people don't think about seed saving. I don't like that seed companies won't invest the time in stabilising their F1s to make new OP varieties. And I don't like hearing about yet more good varieties being lost because they aren't popular compared to F1s.

Having said that, I do grow a few F1s. Mostly stuff I can't save seed from because I couldn't isolate them properly on a busy allotment site. Am planning to 'borrow' a bit of Mum's garden for biennial crops to save from next year.

Moan over.

[cristalfiona]

I try not to buy F1s because I want to be able to save my own seed and know what will come up. I think I do have a couple of varieties I bought before researching that I will probably use and then move back to OP varieties. I may in the future use F1s for certain things if I can't get what I want elsewhere, but I'm only going into my second year of determined growing so I've got a lot of varieties of a lot of vegetables to try before then.

[Potstubsdustbins]

#31 Don't think that's ever going to happen Bill as a smoker (very few these days) I know it bad for me...

[Potstubsdustbins]

Pen, I didn't say I don't believe in climate change I said I don't believe in man made global warming.

This has all happened before, sometimes quicker and more violent some times slower and more gently but it has happened and it will happen again.

The point of my post was that I really do not have that much faith in scientists, and certainly the rabid activists put me off.

[Snadger]

Had a visit to Wilco's today and got the majority of my veg seeds for 2016. No F1's of course and full packets.

• Carrot-Norfolk Giant 2-1500 seeds-80p
• Carrot-Nantes 5-1500 seeds-60p
• Carrot-Autumn King 2 - 1600 seeds-80p
• Tomato-Ailsa Craig-40 seeds-80p
• Cabbage-Langedijk 4 -175 seeds- 80p
• Beetroot-Perfect 3-150 seeds-60p
• Courgette-Zucchini-15 seeds-80p
• Swede-Best of All - 650 seeds-80p
• Brussel Sprouts -Evesham Special-300 seeds - 60p
• Cauliflower-All Year Round - 400 seeds -60p
• Leek - Musselburgh -300 seeds-80p
• Broccoli - (Autun) Green Calabrese - 250 seeds -£1.00
• Climbing bean - Blue lake- 120 seeds - £1.00

Packets were buy three get the cheapest for FREE.

Not a bad start, ten quids worth of seeds for seven quid, any more can be bought as and when I need them!

[veggiechicken]

You should have checked out the VSP Snadge. From memory all those seeds are in it apart from the Norfolk Giants - and you could have them for the price of a stamp and a few F1 seeds

[Snadger]

No idea what the VSP is but I'm quite happy with my purchase.

[veggiechicken]

You're teasing me, Snadger

[Snadger]

You're teasing me, Snadger

I'm not VC! I have a select few threads that i follow and the rest just washes over me!

[Guest]

You should have checked out the VSP Snadge. From memory all those seeds are in it apart from the Norfolk Giants - and you could have them for the price of a stamp and a few F1 seeds

Norfolk Giant aka Autumn King / Flakee 2. Autumn King and Autumn King improved are in the VSP