All year Alliums Challenge 2016/17

[Jay-ell]

Just been thinking, what with trying to grow elephant garlic from top sets and cultivated leeks as perennials leeks I've been thinking is their any other wrong or unconventional way I can try growing alliums.

I'm thinking if I plant whole garlic bulbs in Autumn I can either have a garlic equivalent to spring onions or a bunch of baby garlics to plant out in the spring.

It won't give me any more garlic but if it works it may be possible that instead of having several rows with each clove planted 6" apart that area could have an overwintering green manure to build up the soil first with the garlic growing in a nursery clump or a large pot (MFB?).

Of course if I let that clump grow for a couple of years then I might never need plant another clove - just take offsets from the clump.

Anyone done this?

What do you reckon would be best for this - hard neck or soft neck types?

[veggiechicken]

I've been thinking about crossover alliums too! I have a lot of garlic bulbs left over from last year, that are dried out and generally unappetising but I'm sure there are still some viable cloves in them.
been thinking about bunging them in the ground and seeing what they can do.

The other thing I'm going to do is sow some onion seeds and use them like spring onions. I don't have the patience to turn them into big onions!

[Snoop Puss]

I'm thinking if I plant whole garlic bulbs in Autumn I can either have a garlic equivalent to spring onions or a bunch of baby garlics to plant out in the spring.

Anyone done this?

What do you reckon would be best for this - hard neck or soft neck types?

The locals here do this. They pick it late spring for what they call 'ajo tierno', tender garlic. It's usually used in omelettes and vegetable dishes. They don't let it grow on till the usual harvesting time.

That said, I don't see why you couldn't lift the bulbs then plant the individual cloves out to grow on so long as they each had a bit of root.

This link will show you some pictures (the text is in Spanish):
Plantero/Plantel de Ajo tierno morado por 0,60 € en Viveros Laraflor.

The advice on the website is plant out February to April, 20 cm apart each way, harvest March to May. The locals here don't bother buying garlic for planting, but just use the smallest heads from their previous harvest or ones that have started to sprout.

Here we grow the type of garlic that grows scapes. I can never remember if that's the hard or soft neck type because it's all I can buy locally. You'll see on the link that the price per bulb is 60 euro cents. I'm always quite taken aback at the price of heads of garlic for growing in the UK.

[Jay-ell]

I think that's hardneck - I've only ordered 2 hardneck bulbs and 4 softneck bulbs. I think softneck usually have more cloves. I may try it out with Marco as I'll have 3 bulbs of this to compare autumn sown individual cloves against autumn sown/spring replant bulb. I could always leave the third bulb in to the following year to see how it bulks up over time.

[Snoop Puss]

Maybe I haven't understood your plan, Jay-ell. Are you proposing to plant a bulb and just leave it? If so, how would the bulbs develop? Wouldn't they be a bit cramped for space?

[Jay-ell]

The idea is to plant 2 bulbs.

The first would be dug up and split up the next spring and then grown on individually to see if they form full bulbs.

The second would be left and the plants would still split and multiply by bulb division in the same way other clumping alliums do and would then provide the baby garlics to be split off the next year.

The second one would also have enough little garlics in the clump left over to multiply and provide baby garlics for transplant the next year, and so on.

The plants wouldn't have the space to produce full heads but should still be able to multiply their number by 2 or 3 times (instead of 10-30 times)

The baby garlics could also be used as a "Spring Garlic" in the same way that a multiplying welsh onions can provide spring onions.

OK, that wouldn't be harvested next year, but it's still worth having a go otherwise how would I know if it would work or not.

[Snoop Puss]

Well, it would certainly be an interesting experiment.

[Jay-ell]

Over a month and everyone's silent. Well I'll update everyone on my prep so far - lest we forget.

So far I have 2 lots of Senshyu sown from seed planted out - one lot is probably going to be used as spring onions as it's in a bed I want to move 6 inches to the right and make 2 inches narrower. There's also white lisbon and a few Ailsa Craig seedlings in there as well.

The other lot is at the top of my winter onion bed - most of which is where my courgettes are so I haven't got any sets planted in there yet. I have planted 3 complete garlic heads from the supermarket which are growing to try the spring garlic idea thing.

I have a one square foot patch of shallots packed with sets to see if they can be forced to make small bulbs.
I have a small patch of potato onions planted out at regular spacing (shallots are chap and easy to come by, potato onions aren't) and these are just starting to poke through.

I have a line of Oerprei planted in the onion bed. In the perennial bed I have Babington Leek bulbs and bulbils which are still skulking under the earth, one Elephant Garlic growing bulbils on its flower head and one just poking up out of the earth, 5 Poireau perpétuel growing away and starting to look very leeky, Hookers Chives, Mouse Garl;ic, Rakkyo, Everlasting Onions and some Mussleburgh Leeks I'm trying to perennialise all growing away.

I've two types of Walking Onions - Red Walking Onions and McCullar Walking Onions. The McCullar gives pea sized bulbils in the flower head but what they lack in size they make up for in numbers - after harvesting these will be planted as spring onion sets whilst the main bunches can be harvested as greens.

I've got Few Flowered Leeks, Golden Garlic and Ramsons planted but not showing yet (they should come in Spring I think). I've a patch of Senshyu planted out closely to use as scallions, along with more White lisbon.

I've a proper patch of Musselburgh leeks growing and are nearly ready to start harvesting.

Today in the greenhouse I've planted out a patch of Red Welsh Onions, Welsh Onions (both to be thinned as scallions to leave a bunch of strong plants to plant out in spring), Garlic Chives, McCullar Walking Onions and 300 Elefant leeks at 1" spacing to harvest as baby leeks over winter - there's another similar sized tray to plant out.

I also have a dozed Elephant Garlic cloves planted, a pot of Elephant Garlic rounds (one of which is growing), 2 pots of Elephant Garlic corms (none of which are showing yet) and a pot growing the bulbils I collected from an Elephant Garlic flower earlier in the year.

The Chive hedge I planted earlier is going great guns and covered in flower - which will probably mean that next year I'll have a chive forest. I need to take the three pots of chives into the greenhouse and give them a haircut to freshen them up.

Currently I'm waiting on a delivery of Hair and Passion.

Still to plant out are two types of overwintering onions, 4 types of garlic and 1 pack of shallots. Plus seeds to sow in spring.

How's everyone else doing?

[veggiechicken]

Where to start?
Three Babington leeks are growing bulbils amongst their flower heads. These leeks are about 5 years old and I haven't eaten any yet, just waiting for them to spread.
Alongside them, in the perennial onion bed is a clump of Welsh Onions and one of Chives.
The three-cornered leeks, moved from the other house, where it has taken over the garden, is attempting to do the same here. I'm trying to keep it deadheaded so that it can't seed.
Some self-sown leeks have appeared, where some leeks were left to go to seed in the spring.
Seeds saved from a bunching onion, and carefully dried off in the GH for bagging up, have got wet somehow and they're sprouting like grass. Today, I've spread them out in 2 seed trays and am hoping for trays of seedlings.
Seedlings of Red & White Welsh Onions, Ishikura, Shimonita and Winter White Bunching onions are showing in the GH.
Baby leeks Nipper and Atal are growing in a pot in the GH.
There are 3 beds of leeks in various stages some large enough to pull.
A permanent bed has been created for Elephant garlic, planted recently.
Trays of germinated Babington leek bulbils and garlic minicloves are waiting for their forever home.
Two pots of garlic chives need splitting and planting out.

Im sure there's more but that's all I can remember off the top of my head

[Airhead]

Perennial green onions.

Year round alliums are possible.
Of course we can hope our onions, shallots, garlic store well store well. Fresh alliums need more planning, a useful new allium in my garden are Bulgarian Giant Leeks, I am lifting yard long leeks now in October, old standbys like Musselburgh never seem to be ready until after Christmas. Apparently they are not very hardy but I am grateful for their early cropping.
I have an evergreen perennial non-flowering bunching salad onion which is usable year round. At its plumpest in Spring it is usable as a normal cooking onion as it does form a slight bulb-like swelling. The rest of the year it is a great source of onion flavour thrown in mashed potato, salads, stir fries etc. It is a lot like Welsh Onion & may be a non-flowering form though the leaves seem more D shaped in cross section, true Welsh Onion are O shaped, or it may be Perutile Onion (perutile =useful in Latin). They have been shared around my Edinburgh allotment site for decades.
Of course as it is non-flowering there are no annoying inedible flower stalks just lots of edible green leaves & white shanks easily lifted & eaten or propagated by replanting. But you cannot start your own from seed, anyone in the Edinburgh area is welcome to visit me for a handful to plant., it certainly deserves to be more widely grown & shared around, it really is a Perutile Onion.

[veggiechicken]

Thanks for the info Airhead.
Wish I lived closer and could take you up on your kind offer.

[Jay-ell]

Thanks for the info Airhead - if a strange hairy Geordie turns up at your plot shouting "Where's Your onions " don't worry its only me.

I have some seeds for the Bulgarian Giant Leek - when do you sow them?

So are you joining in for the challenge?

Today I've actually ran out of Alliums - I've been planting out that overwintering alliums and still have 4 foot of bed left.

[Cadalot]

OK now I have found out about this thread and I have a new plot which I'm informed does not have white rot problems, I'm in for the challenge.

Norfolk Gray is sending me some everlasting onions and potato onions and I'm looking at the walking onions as they look interesting.

Normally I do well on the onion front, and grow from seed, not as good this year mind you and I have bought sets and just sown 49 Japanese, 51 Red Onions and 45 Radar in vending machine cups see Alans Allotment: Over Wintering Onions

I still have half a bed of spring onions to harvest on plot 23B

I will be sowing onions from seed immediately after Boxing day for a second wave to follow the over wintering ones. varieties I have are:-

Alison Craig
Bedfordshire Champion
Globo The Giant Onion
Hytech F1
Kamal F1
North Holland Blood Red
Red Baron
Stuttgarter Riesen
Santero F1

In addition I will be sowing a tray of modules 15 vending machine cups of spring onions in groups every two weeks:-

Apache (Deep Red)
Arrow
Ishikura
Long Red Florence
North Holland Blood Red
Paris Silverskini
Performa
Pompeii
Purplette
Ramrod
Shimonita
White Lisbon

I also have some Leeks to sow this year I have not grown them before

Atal - Baby Type
De Carentan 2
Herfstuezen 3 - Porvite
Musselburgh
Nipper
Swiss Giant Zermatt

Again never gown before but I have Prisma F1 Hybrid Shallots and a fellow allotment holder have given me two Elephant garlics to try from this years harvest.

[Guest]

Not sure how I have missed this thread.

In store

Ailsa Craig
Santero
Mammoth Improved
Cippolini
Potato Onions
Shallot - red sun
Shallot - golden gourmet
Shallot - germor (but they are naff to be quite honest)
garlic - elephant

In the ground

garlic - Casablanca
garlic - Provence Wight
garlic - elephant
garlic - supermarket own
Leeks - mussleburgh
leeks - bleu de solaise
allium candense (establishing, no idea what it is like)
everlasting onion
welsh onion

to sow soon not sure they will come to much.

chives
garlic chives
spring onion - feast
spring onion - white Lisbon

Back in the radish challenge days I done spring onions successionally in fruit punnets and they done well until I lost track of them I have given up overwintering onions. I will start sowing Feb-ish

on the acquire list

babbington leeks (kind potential donor found )
tree onions

[Elfeda]

I am in, my goal is not having to buy many onions next year. and should be keen on using several other onion types.


NG, I have shallot Golden Gourmeet and red sun.. bought them long back is there anyway I can overwinter them with minimal loss!