Growing without compost (MPC)

[happyhumph]

I buy 3 bags of MPC a year. I use it for seeds with the big lumps picked out (& for the pet snails! ) Toms & everything else in pots goes in a mix of soil and homemade compost with some feed mixed in, & sometimes a bit of MPC on top to supress weeds. Would love to go no MPC at all, but no molehills anymore, & never get round to doing significant quantities of leafmould.

See no reason why you shouldn't go MPC free if you've got something you can use for seeds. Pots for toms /chilies /cucs get a bit of extra feed and homemade compost when they finish & then have winter things put in them. Then in spring they get emptied over the beds, ready for filling up again.

[mothhawk]

I don't use MPC. I do however, start my seeds in John Innes seed compost, purely because I know then that what comes up is what I've sowed out of the packet. I tried using garden soil a few times, but ended up lovingly nurturing what turned out to be foxgloves/Welsh poppies/poached egg plants and all the other things that self seed all over the garden, and outgrow any official seedlings that come up.

And I use hanging basket compost in the hanging baskets, that's a weight and watering thing. I find one bag that I can lift easily will fill 3 baskets with enough left to do a couple of large pots too.

[rary]

the reason people started using shop bought compost was that it was made with peat which was sterile the feeding was a known quantity, and it was lighter in weight, the rubbish that is marketed nowadays is no better and in many cases poorer quality than what most gardeners produce themselves, some of the best rooted cuttings I have had from fuchsia has been in course sand, which can also be used for seed sowing, I am in the fortunate position of being able to collect river sand while out walking the dog, and I can sterilise this when I have the fire on, it can also be sterilised by the wallpaper stripper,........ but she refuses to do it

[sparrow100]

I've only ever grown g/h toms in the soil borders, augmented by lots of rotted muck, comfrey tea and, in the first year, a couple of bags of MPC. They grow really well usually, barring the blighty blip last year.

I am going fully peat-free this year out of concerns about peat bog depletion and making all my own (eeeep!), barring a couple of bags of SylvaGrow for seed sowing. It is great stuff, I had really good results with it last year. Though I haven't started here yet - cue small panic.

[Penellype]

I've only ever grown g/h toms in the soil borders, augmented by lots of rotted muck, comfrey tea and, in the first year, a couple of bags of MPC. They grow really well usually, barring the blighty blip last year.

I am going fully peat-free this year out of concerns about peat bog depletion and making all my own (eeeep!), barring a couple of bags of SylvaGrow for seed sowing. It is great stuff, I had really good results with it last year. Though I haven't started here yet - cue small panic.

No idea why the small panic - everything I have sown so far is going to live in the house and most of it is salad stuff which will only be around for a couple of months.

[chasingmytail]

Great question.

I am at an advantage as we make tons of compost and we are an organic farm. So my cost savings are immediate.

I would assume 1. depends on the quality of your soil, clay based etc. 2. stones in soil 3. Your orientation and weather.

Charles Dowding also talks about the poor quality of compost and usually makes his own and buys that really expensive stuff 'Lakeland Gold' To make gardening cost effective then buying pallets of the stuff isnt a great start at £11 a bag. I use the no dig method and build up the layers. But then I have to add a thick layer of compost or you could consider the mulch layer system but I think this takes a while to break down.

I would consider going on the Dowding forum page and log on and post the question. To be fair he does answer all questions.

[sparrow100]

No idea why the small panic - everything I have sown so far is going to live in the house and most of it is salad stuff which will only be around for a couple of months.

Because I haven't yet started on the chillies and my growing plan is non-existant. I know there is time, but I like to be organised - normally it would be all sorted by now.

[Kirk]

I would say that MPC is doing little for you VC other then make the soil itself easier to turn over. If you use a growbag then after a few weeks you have to replace the nutrients that were put in there.
The "compost" aspect would seem to simply supply a medium to support the plant and more specifically the roots, nutrients are placed in there prior to you buying the bag.

I would not grow tomato's in a grow bag or MPC, they all start off in pots then when I decide they go into the ground and soil.

One aspect I have found is that I have added compost to my bed to "improve" the soil - also to raise the level I will also say. It has improved the structure, nice and easy to dig over, but made it low in terms of nutrients - progressively poor yields. This year I added bags of manure, no compost, and am hoping for better results. So continual addition of MPC could well make things worse over time.

I tend now to consider MPC as a sterile material now. That if used in pots then it automatically has manure or chicken manure pellets added for the nutrient aspect. I suspect the mistake is to presume that MPC is all that is required.

Have noticed that a large pot of MPC left in the pot after cropping and harvesting looks darker and so possibly richer 6 months later. I often recycle a large pot by turning it over with a hand trowel, adding manure and reusing.

[JustPotteringAbout]

My late dad never bought any compost. He used garden soil, leafmould, seaweed, manure and garden compost+. The aim of the game for him was zero spend,because plants come out of the ground for nothing He got a great deal of bemusement from seeing neighbours cart in thousands worth of compost, plants and stuff.

I don't buy compost because I don't drive and I'm not too keen on paying for a bus.
I won 3 bags of peat-free a few years ago and still reusing the first bag for starting seed. I bought coir though as it was easy to carry. I had some success raising seed in garden soil though only once learned to ID weeds.

If I have to fork out for anything I'd rather have equipment than consumables, though my dad would have a fit at the amount of pots trays and stuff I've bought even though they were massively reduced. He only had a couple of seed trays yet somehow grew more with less

Much of this expenditure and consumerism on gardening with normal people has resulted from the proliferation of the motor car, a desire for instant fixes.
edit:typos,

[Snadger]

^^^ Similar but not quite. I want to find out if its possible to avoid using/buying MPC at all. Gardening on the cheap

I do it all the time...............garden on the cheap that is! I always gert better results growing in the greenhouse bed soil. Its more forgiving, and doesn't need to be watered every day.

[optiminx]

I haven't read the whole post so apologies if this has already been said! When you grow in sterile compost the seedlings don't need to compete so all may flourish but they are weaker and prone to pest attack especially after planting out. In soil from where they are going to grow, provided it's free of club root etc, only strong seedlings survive so only strong plants will be planted out. They also grow sturdier and shorter in soil than peat, more slowly because they are building better stronger plants, with darker green leaves, that are easier to harden off. 100% germination may seem good but you may spend more time pricking out seedlings that will later succumb to disease or be eaten by pests, or simply struggle to make good plants once they move into soil. If soil alone is too heavy, mixing some with your bought compost at least introduces the life & organisms the seedlings will meet later on. I usually mix in a bit of Dolomite lime, some calcified seaweed, rock dust if I have it, and a bit of worm compost. Worm casts that you find will do if you don't have your own colony. Peat raised seedlings sometimes have difficulty sending roots out into soil, and may appear to thrive until they have used up all the nutrient in their compost root-ball. When you harvest your crops, examine the roots and see how much or little they rooted out into their surroundings. It can be enlightening!

[Dalrimple]

another good thread and it's got me thinking ! atb Dal