Penellype's Allotment

[Penellype]

Not a lot of activity on the work front, so nobody will be surprised to hear that I went back to the allotment this afternoon. I took with me some "garden track" which is a roll up plastic path thing (I use it in short sections as stepping "stones"), one of my tub trugs and my trusty swoe. The aim of the garden track was to distribute my weight a bit (like walking on a plank of wood - I don't have one). Made a start on hoeing off the willowherb in the open area and digging out any dandelions I came across. I've done about a quarter of the area, probably the easiest section. Again this was light work, but the soil was so wet that liquid mud came up through the slats I was standing on. There were some potatoes and the odd rotten onion in amongst.

This level of activity can't go on for long, but I want to get as much done as is sensibly possible before the whole lot freezes solid, which it may well do at the weekend, for an indefinite period.

[Deano's "Diggin It"]

Nice work "Lady P"

and actually doesn't look in that bad of nick!

and wishing you all the very best with it!

You "Go Girl"

[rary]

This level of activity can't go on for long, but I want to get as much done as is sensibly possible before the whole lot freezes solid, which it may well do at the weekend, for an indefinite period.

You are doing great, but don't overdo it, after all I am hoping you will come and do my garden As for the weather there is someone on the Vine that does a weather forecast you should ask for one specifically for your area
Enjoy what you are doing, as its a pleasure to read about it

[Snadger]

You put me in mind of myself to some extent!

I remember when I got my first allotment on my present site, the Secetary coming and seeing me and saying "You don't have to complete the clearing of the plot, and have it planted up in the first week you know"

Eight years later, I am still enthusiastic about my newest plot!

I wonder what yours will look like in eight years time!

[Chestnut]

Re Horsetail
I have had it for over 30 years and can't get rid of it.
I think the roots go down to hell.
Cultivation seems to annoy it.
But like most weeds it's a never ending war you can never win.
However see
https://www.organicfacts.net/health-...horsetail.html
Seem to be a cure for all things, if you believe that.
Jimmy

I have only ever once seen horsetail ‘got rid of’ - we had loads in the veg patch at home when I was a child. Came back with a vengeance 16 months after dad dug out all the roots down to about 7 foot depth(!), but eventually succumbed to being grassed over and mowed twice weekly (with a new veg patch dug out of the lawn elsewhere).
Fifteen years later he successfully moved the veg patch back to its original location, and has not had any further problems with horsetail. Unfortunately I do not know if 10 years mowing would have been sufficient....

[geepee]

Not a lot of activity on the work front, so nobody will be surprised to hear that I went back to the allotment this afternoon. I took with me some "garden track" which is a roll up plastic path thing (I use it in short sections as stepping "stones"), one of my tub trugs and my trusty swoe. The aim of the garden track was to distribute my weight a bit (like walking on a plank of wood - I don't have one). Made a start on hoeing off the willowherb in the open area and digging out any dandelions I came across. I've done about a quarter of the area, probably the easiest section. Again this was light work, but the soil was so wet that liquid mud came up through the slats I was standing on. There were some potatoes and the odd rotten onion in amongst.

This level of activity can't go on for long, but I want to get as much done as is sensibly possible before the whole lot freezes solid, which it may well do at the weekend, for an indefinite period.

Penellype....
.Ive followed this thread from the beginning And totally admire and support your Ambition and Enthusiasm.
Looking in as an 'Outside' set of eyes it seems to me that you are keen and eager to get the 'Lottie' up and running ASAP growing everything perfectly, That fits with me.
However...Not wanting to appear to 'Rain on your Parade'
You have mentioned the 'Water Logging, mares Tail, Rotten Potatoe and Existing Shillots, etc

A certain recipe for White rot and Blight, so needless to say...get rid ASAP .

Throughout my previous Farming career, Iv'e always been taught that mares Tail thrives in 'Poor ground ' Ie low Ph, and Low P&K levels and areas of waterlogging.
Might I respectfully suggest that before doing a lot of hard work and spending time and £ on an unknown situation, a soil test for Ph.P & K and a look at the soil structure.

Dig a hole a foot square and 2' deep, see what its like. mix some soil with water into a slurry and put in a Bottle or jar, see how it settles out into Clay.sand . silt. Organic etc.( Obviously heaviest will go to bottom)

It maybe that you have a high Clay content causing poor drainage or low Ph levels etc.

All problems are usually Rectifiable once they are diagnosed.

Far better to know what your faced with ,and take 'Curative ' action before spending time and money.
Gp

[Penellype]

Penellype....
.Ive followed this thread from the beginning And totally admire and support your Ambition and Enthusiasm.
Looking in as an 'Outside' set of eyes it seems to me that you are keen and eager to get the 'Lottie' up and running ASAP growing everything perfectly, That fits with me.
However...Not wanting to appear to 'Rain on your Parade'
You have mentioned the 'Water Logging, mares Tail, Rotten Potatoe and Existing Shillots, etc

A certain recipe for White rot and Blight, so needless to say...get rid ASAP .

Throughout my previous Farming career, Iv'e always been taught that mares Tail thrives in 'Poor ground ' Ie low Ph, and Low P&K levels and areas of waterlogging.
Might I respectfully suggest that before doing a lot of hard work and spending time and £ on an unknown situation, a soil test for Ph.P & K and a look at the soil structure.

Dig a hole a foot square and 2' deep, see what its like. mix some soil with water into a slurry and put in a Bottle or jar, see how it settles out into Clay.sand . silt. Organic etc.( Obviously heaviest will go to bottom)

It maybe that you have a high Clay content causing poor drainage or low Ph levels etc.

All problems are usually Rectifiable once they are diagnosed.

Far better to know what your faced with ,and take 'Curative ' action before spending time and money.
Gp

Thanks for the advice. Basically what I am trying to do at the moment is find out what I have got and get rid of the larger weeds while the ground is not frozen, hence what would appear to be a rush. There are already dandelions in flower for example.

The soil is very similar to mine at home, being only a couple of hundred yards away as the crow flies - I have to walk 2 sides of a rectangle to get to it, which I timed at less than 4 minutes. It is quite clearly wet as the water table in this area is only a couple of inches below the surface except in a drought and currently is on the surface, with standing water in the local fields. If I dig a hole 2ft deep I will have a pond. The particles are very fine and the whole thing is sticky, which is just like mine. There s a decent amount of organic content, although some of this is definitely rotting horsetail foliage, especially in the tunnel.

I can tell that the land has been well looked after because its workable (just) - it must have had plenty of compost over the years. There is a tub of lime in the shed, which I guess will have been used for brassicas, as is traditional. The soil around here is acid and last time I tested mine it came out at pH 1-2 which is clearly crazy, so I have little faith in the home testing kits.

The weeds I have are (in order of abundance) willowherb (a carpet), horsetail, grass, dandelions, bittercress, dead nettle. There are nettles and brambles in the hedge, and a little celandine. This lot confirms to me that the soil is likely to be on the acid side, although the apparent absence of creeping buttercup is interesting. Maybe I just haven't found it yet. There could of course be other perennial weeds lurking below the surface, but I haven't seen anything that looks like bindweed or ground elder root, which implies that the plot has been generally well looked after. Willowherb is always the first weed to colonize land that is left to itself, and there is loads of it in this area.

I have removed the potatoes and the rotting onions, although there are still shallots lying about which I will pick up shortly. I wanted to keep out of the tunnel for a bit as it is in danger of turning into a quagmire.

Having measured up I have plans for the large open area, which I will outline in the next post.

[Penellype]

Some plans are gradually taking shape, helped along by today's measuring.

The large area to the east of the tunnel has clearly been fairly recently dug (within the last year or so), and there is evidence of onions, shallots, potatoes and cabbages. It is, surprisingly, far from flat. I think the whole plot slopes slightly north to south, and the grass path next to the hawthorn hedge is definitely naturally the highest point.

Next to the green compost bin on the north side is a row of 3 rhubarb plants, and these are at least level with the grass, possibly slightly raised. There is then a sharp drop of several inches to a row of strawberry plants. The combined width from grass path to the dug side of the strawberries is 8 feet.

On the eastern edge of the plot is a grass path 2ft wide, next to which is a row of raspberries which stretches from south of the strawberry bed to about level with the end of the tunnel, a distance I measured as 24 feet. Anything much beyond this is grass and likely to be full of leylandii tree roots and will be very shady.

The distance from the grass path to the tunnel (if the path and tunnel are parallel, which I think they are) is 18 feet, but about 3ft is taken up by the raspberries, giving me a rectangle measuring 24 feet by 14 feet. The north east 1/4 of this is fairly clear, and this is what I hoed this afternoon. The south east 1/4 contains rather more grass and some cabbages, but should not be too hard to clear. The other half is less easy, with a lot more grass and a raised part near the tunnel (again with a drop of a few inches) which is planted with what are likely to be various types of flowers.

My idea is to eventually convert this area into 2 blocks of 5 raised beds, 2m x 1m each, running east - west with a 1/2m path between them running north - south and 1/2m paths between. This will be quite tight and may not work if my measurements are wrong, so I will need to do a little more accurate measuring and marking out before I commit myself. However, I want to start on the east side, and the least movable boundary is the west (tunnel), so I'm not going to create anything permanent yet. I may also run into difficulties with the level differences for the tunnel side raised beds.

What I do intend to do is take some cardboard down and lay it over the area I hoed today in 2m x 1m sections so that I can see what that looks like. The reasons for this size are that I can easily reach the whole bed from the sides, they are not too long to walk round and if I want to later I can buy wooden raised beds that size which would not be too impossibly big for me to put together on my own. Once the beds are marked out, if I am happy with them I can bring down some rotted horse manure from the stables and see how much I need to cover the beds to a couple of inches. These will then be topped up with things like grass cuttings, shredded paper and some of last year's used compost to make lasagne type beds. I want to get 2 of the beds done by March (one for onions and one for peas), which hopefully won't be too hard. If I can find something to make some sides out of I may make one of the beds into a hotbed, which would also act as a store for rotting down fresh horse muck (which is much easier to get at than the rotted stuff).

In the longer term the rhubarb seems to me to be in completely the wrong place, taking up a large area of the sunniest part of the plot. I might try to dig it up and move it to a shadier position, but that will probably not be until Autumn.

[KevinM67]

You're a machine.

[Penellype]

You're a machine.

I wish I was, looking at the state of that leylandii hedge!

[Penellype]

Well, it rained most of the day, so I went shopping and got myself a hand fork and trowel, my standard weeding tools. I was going to get some edging shears (Wilko usually sell these really cheap) but they are not in stock yet. I ordered some very cheap hand shears from Amazon instead - they should enable me to trim the grass under the hedges and hopefully chop up the weeds a bit for the compost. If they are any good I might have a go at the hedges too.

There was a drier interval after lunch so I walked down with the trowel and fork and my spare pair of secateurs. As I expected there are now a couple of places that are under water (as there are at home). It will be interesting to see how well it drains when it stops raining.

I cut off some nettles and brambles that were growing in the hedge and impeding access to the tunnel and tidied up various bits of wood and rope that were lying around, which I could get at from the paths.

In the photo in post #48 on p6 of this thread there is a white chair and next to it a blue barrel with an orange lid. I'd been struggling to get the lid off the barrel, which states that it contains mango chutney (!) to see what was really in it. I managed to prize the lid off with my new trowel, and found that the barrel is empty. I decided it was a useful container for perennial weed roots, so I added the dandelions I dug up yesterday and put it near the compost bin.

I also had a look at the level difference between the flowers near the tunnel and the dug vegetable area. It isn't as much as I remember - possibly 2 inches, whereas the rhubarb is about 4 inches above the strawberries. I think with a bit of spadework it would level without interfering with the tunnel, which is what I was concerned about.

As I thought, the grass path at the side of the plot and the tunnel are not absolutely parallel. The distance is slightly narrower at the road end, which is a pain as I want to start by making the beds at that end. I'm now considering removing the row of raspberries, as this would give me a clean area to work with. Where they are at the moment they will probably make a habit of popping up in the middle of my raised beds.

By this time it was again pouring with rain so I called it a day and came home.

[Penellype]

I've been thinking about the raspberries, and the more I think, the more I am convinced I should remove them. My plan for the raised beds really includes access from the grass path at the side of the plot, and if I have a row of raspberries I can't do that. The plants themselves look far from happy - they are only about 2ft high and there is little evidence of new growth. The ground is very wet and they are lower than the grass path. I suspect they may have root rot. If I plan my raised bed layout with the raspberries where they are and then I decide they have had it, my beds will be in the wrong places.

I think what I need to do is go and measure up and put stakes in the corners of the beds and maybe mark out the paths, and see what it looks like. I'm also in a quandary about raised bed sizes, as I had planned on 2m x 1m beds but I have now found some 6ft by 3ft ones that are about half the price, and I could get 10 for less than £200. Trying to find wood the right length is a nightmare and I have given that idea up.

[Snoop Puss]

Sounds like the raspberries have to go.

[Newt]

Getting rid of the raspberries does sound like the way to go. You can always plant a new set of healthier ones in a better position afterwards.

6ft x 3ft doesn't too bad as that works out 1.82m x 0.9m, so only a bit narrower and shorter than you'd planned.

[Penellype]

Been down to the plot this morning and had another measure using the 6ft by 3ft beds instead of the 2m by 1m. I think they are probably better, as although the bigger beds would fit, the bottom one is getting a bit close to the leylandii hedge. In fact I am inclined to remove the strawberries too, as I don't know how old they are, what variety they are or anything and I have strawberries at home. It would make for a better layout with access to both sides of the rhubarb.

Currently I'm thinking of putting some raspberries on the higher part, next to the rhubarb. I'm going to need to find some way of curbing their enthusiasm runner-wise though as I don't particularly want them popping up through the tunnel mesh or in amongst the rhubarb. More thinking required on this.