growing veg in a garden

[Michelle]

Hi everyone

For the last two years we have been lucky enough to have an allotment opposite our flat. We've had some success and some failure, and have got a good idea now for the things we love to grow and the things we can't be bothered with!

We have just accepted an offer on our flat and had an offer accepted on a house, with a garden! If all goes to plan we'll be moving a long way from the allotment, so we'll be giving that up and hope to grow veg in the garden (on a smaller scale than we do currently, possibly square foot gardening).

My question is (after all my rambling!) how important the sun is?! The garden in the house we're buying is partially shaded by a big tree in a neighbour's garden and I'm wondering if it's going to be a problem.

The side of the garden that would appear to get the most sun is the side with the path leading from the garage and back gate, so I can't really put a bed there!

Would be interested to hear your thoughts...

Thanks

[borage]

We are growing in a small area of our garden using the squarefoot method (this is our first year). We have sun first thing in the morning, mid afternoon next doors conifers block the sun and as it moves around the veg patch is in the shade of the house. We have been very successful with dwarf french beans, protovay cabbages, little gem and red loose leaf lettuce and shallots in this area. We have been disappointed by the beetroot but this could be down to the weather or soil type.

I hope this is of some help to you but I am sure someone with more experience will be along shortly to give advice.

[Alison]

I grow in my garden and suffer a bit from shade from the neighbours as well as our own house. You do need to be a bit organised and work out what will grow where in addition to the normal rotation type issues. Obviously some things just need the sun to do much. You also need to consider roots from such trees as these will take a surprising amount of water / nutrients out and it's best to avoid root crops in these areas. I find I can get fairly reasonably crops by some raised beds at the bottom of the garden, the addition of some of the prettier veg in the flower borders (increasing the % every year!) and patio pots. And remember, you do have the advantage that you can simply walk out the backdoor to weed, feed, water and most importantly, pick! Will be fun planning and setting it all out.

[bazzaboy]

hi Michelle

You'll find your garden veg growing techniques might need to be quite different to those on an allotment which by design tends to be very open. Your square foot approach is a good one and the square feet don't all have to be in the same place, maybe containers on the sunny path etc. (see Snadger's bright solution to a similar problem I recently related under the "problem areas" thread). Where there's a will...

Some additional info might be useful - e.g. sounds as if you know exactly what you want to grow but didn't specify it. It'll probably be a case of meeting specific demands by location, the "cottage garden" approach. And what's the tree?

bb

[Cutecumber]

I would get out a map and draw a little diagram of the new garden showing the aspect. The sun moves during the day, obviously, but it's rising and setting points also move a long way during the year. Look for a diagram on the internet. It can be suprising how little sun a garden can get in winter months and how much in the summer - this could affect any winter growing you plan to do. Your diagram may help you think about what is best for different parts of the garden - for humans and vegetables!

Heavy tree shade is a problem - only ivy usually finds it acceptable - but light shade for part of the day is not a problem. You may find that things grow taller or lean more than on your open allotment, but it's possible to get good yields. I have a narrow, north facing suburban garden with some big trees around - in my neighbours gardens - and a few apple trees in my own garden. Some of my crops which I planted out in the sunniest areas - beetroot, for example - have not enjoyed it much. Leaf beet grown under the apple trees has done great.

[Winged one]

You can grow lots in pots, which you could move around if you felt energetic. Also, while you couldn't put a full bed on the side passage, you might be able to put a couple of pots which you could walk around normally, or temporarily move if you need the passage space for certain jobs (eg, putting out bins weekly).

Another things you could consider are hanging baskets. These are not just for flowers - I have been growing tumbler cherry toms in my (single) basket for the past few years and, while it's not an awful lot of toms, there are enough to feed the toddler for maybe 5/6 weeks and also get a few nice bites ourselves. Chillis would also work as pots on the wall - you can get holders for proper pots to hang on the wall, which means that your small sunny spot could be used by a number of pots going up the wall. Just take greater precautions against wind, especially if using a passage.

Veg that grows tall can be grown up an obelisk in a decent tub - that's the only way I could grow peas until this year, and it was still the most prolific cropper - beating the 2 rows I put on the plot hands down. My tub is probably 2' high and 12-18" in diameter, and I put in 20 seeds initially, adding a few more to fill the gaps that appeared where there was non-germination, and we got 6-7 dinners for the 3 of us, and a good few for just the toddler, out of that, with the last few pods fattening up at the mo.

The square foot/metre gardening sounds good, and things like sweetcorn could be underplanted with lettuces etc so could even look good in an ordinary border.

Training things upward also helps in small spaces, along walls. So not just climbing peas, beans, espalier fruit trees, but I saw a climbing courgette this year that I want to try next year, for example.

Also, in re-reading your post, the path is between the back gate and garage where the sun shines. Could that path be relocated slightly, or meander around a bit more than going a direct route? This might allow you to use the best space more productively and not so useful space in a more productive manner than at the minute. Look at the garden as a blank canvass at the moment, and while taking the strutures that can't be moved into account, perhaps you could redesign the layout to better suit yourselves and maybe create a bit of mystery about where that path leads?

Good luck with the move.
Wings

[Michelle]

Thanks for all your replies!

I am quite excited about it all now - just hope it all goes through ok.... I'm also very excited about the new kitchen we'll be putting in so that I've got somewhere nice to cook all the lovely veg!

I have a feeling my favourite veg are those that like a lot of sun!

We've grown carrots and spring onions together in big tubs quite sucessfully this year, so that will be a definite to go in the garden.

Also like toms (so I like the idea of the hanging baskets), runner beans, squashes/courgettes (I have some seeds of the climbing ones but didn't have a decent structure for them to climb at the allotment so never planted them), lettuce/rocket, peas (I've always hated these but loved the home grown ones raw!) and beetroot...

Apparently the house faces east-west, with the sun rising over the back garden and setting over the front garden. The front garden is not shaded at all, but not much separating us from the terraces on either side or from the path, so not sure about putting my veg out there.

Thanks again!

Michelle

[Vegmonkey]

We only have a very small plot in our back garden, and have planned very carefully so that we can maximise what we produce. There is no way as much expendable space like in an allotment and things have to be a lot closer together. Rotation is also important as you won't have the ability to leave a fallow plot if you get disease problems.

However there is nothing more rewarding than having your own little space at the back of the house where you ca go and collect dinner. Nothing!

[Michelle]

Thanks Vegmonkey - your blog is inspiring, beautiful photography!

Our garden (well, hopefully it will be our garden soon!) is probably the same size as yours but we want to keep some of it as grass, so will probably have half as many beds.

Silly question maybe, but what sort of places can we get cheap wood to make a couple of raised beds?

We've just pulled up carrots and beetroot from the allotment, and some runner beans. Mmmmm. Like you say, it will be great when it's right outside the back door!

[borage]

Michelle try freecycle in your area for wood you never know some one might have some they want to get rid of.

[Vegmonkey]

Thanks Michelle, always nice to receive complements. I agree with Borage, freecycle in your area is a good bet. I bought mine online, i can't remember exactly the cost but about 100 english pounds each i think including delivery. Quite expensive but i wanted stuff that would last, and they are solid. They were provided with bolts, i had to provide the drilling tho!

Other than that maybe try ascaffolding yard as they may have some excess planks of wood, but they may have been treated which could affect the veg growing. I put a thick layer of cardboard at the bottom of the bed to supress the weeds, and added plenty of sand to the mix to aid drainage.

[CarolineW]

How wide is your path? In Mel's book "All New Square Foot Gardening" he shows how to build square foot planters to go along paths, on patio's, etc - not just confining it to the garden itself. I'm planning to do that up our steps and along our path next year for the sun loving plants.

[Michelle]

I can't remember how wide the path is, seems ages since we saw the house. I sometimes wonder if we'll ever move in!

I looked up the tumbler toms and found you can get them in red and yellow - they look fantastic, can't wait to grow them.