How 'Green' Is Derris?

[Seabreeze]

Hi,

I have resorted to spraying one or two 'things' with Derris liquid to get rid of caterpillars - and am now tempted to blast all the celery and parsnips.

We have a very healthy population of frogs though that often lurk among the latter.. would the Derris liquid harm them, and the ladybirds, come to that? How 'green' is it?

Thanks in advance,

Keith

[Snadger]

Derris is soon to become a banned chemilcal! It is now linked to Alkseimers disease (excuse the spelling, i've been using derris for years!)

[Tam]

http://www.growfruitandveg.co.uk/gra...ust_14643.html

[Two_Sheds]

Rotenone - the active ingredient obtained from the crushed root of the derris tree - has been linked to the progressive brain disorder Parkinson's disease, and a subsequent investigation by the Pesticide Safety Directive (PSD) has led to the decision to withdraw all derris-based sprays and powders.

Although no definitive date has been set for the removal of derris from the market, sources claim that products will be available until September 2009.

Among the products to be targeted are Liquid Derris and Derris Dust, but organic alternatives do already exist* in the shape of sprays containing fatty acids, plant oils and pyrethrums. Derris itself has been used in the amateur horticultural sector since the mid-19th Century.

* plus squishing with your fingers, barriers like fleece, enviromesh etc.

Derris, although an organic insecticide with the active ingredient of rotenone, is harmful to bees so apply in the evening after the bees have finished work for the day Derris & Bees

It also kills spiders, which are beneficial in the garden, even if you personally don't like them.

Derris is a poison, and it's non-selective. As well as killing the nasties, it also kills the goodies, like bees.

The problem is when amateurs pick up an "organic" product like Derris and think it's okay to splash around willy-nilly, because it's "organic" and somehow fluffy.

Derris has long been used to kill fish, so is obviously going to be harmful to any ponds in the vicinity of it's use. Glyphosate is also harmful to aquatic life, and it too gets sprayed around like it's going out of fashion

Factsheet - Rotenone

There is only one known death due to Derris, in a 3 year old child. The toxic dose isn't yet known (because they can't test it on real live humans). Critical Care | Full text | Fatality after deliberate ingestion of the pesticide rotenone: a case report

The Derris plant used to be commonly used by suicides in Papua New Guinea.

Nasty stuff to be spraying around if you're not careful.

We have inquisitive little children in our house, so I wouldn't keep any poison here ... it's just not worth the risk. I don't intend to sound preachy ~ that's just what I think. I couldn't forgive myself if a child OD'd on something I'd left lying around.

[Flummery]

I don't use it, only one person on our little 12 plot site does. He's the one with the magnificent sprouts while the rest of us have bare stalks! However, I believe nature's all about balance. The little horrors will go off and pupate or whatever they do and the plants will start to grow again. We'll get a tatty crop but we'll have bees to pollinate our plants in future years - if other things don't get them.

[Headfry]

Yikes, I have that in my plot shed (un used) I thought it was a 'fluffy' product and not the nasty it turns out to be.
I must get rid of it!!!! my poor girls - what if they get to hear that I have THAT in my shed! What is the best way to dispose of it please?
Dont think I have ever known such a bad year for caterpillars though

[Two_Sheds]

What is the best way to dispose of it please?(

Give it to Seabreeze!

I don't use it, only one person on our little 12 plot site does. He's the one with the magnificent sprouts while the rest of us have bare stalks!

we have a guy who sprays everything in sight - we call him Chemical Jim.
He refuses to use environmesh, as it "doesn't look nice".

His cabbages are even lacier than mine, even though he sprays them every ruddy week

[Flummery]

Ha ah! Is it you with embroidery scissors?

[Two_Sheds]

Embroidery scissors, hee hee

* goes off to find some pinking shears ~ that'll confuse the awld bugger

[SueA]

I picked up Derris once thinking it was fairly 'organic' but when I read all the warnings on the pack I put it down again as it sounded more like 'agent orange' & pretty lethal to lots of aquatic & insect life that I didn't want to harm. Bordeaux mixture is the same, harmful to aquatic & other wildlife & although approved for 'organic' use they say only use as a last resort.

[rustylady]

Dont think I have ever known such a bad year for caterpillars though

Me either. I've netted, squished, scraped the eggs off, sprayed with jets of water and I've never seen so many caterpillars still surviving and munching my brassicas.

[MaureenHall]

I'd like to know when the caterpillars finally go away for the winter! I've been out twice a day most days spraying the little devils with garlic fire spray and there's still loads of them around Feel as if I'm fighting a losing battle some days

[Seabreeze]

GULP!!!

I don't know if I'm glad I asked or not... ;-)

Thankfully it's virtually the only chemical I've ever used - and I've only just bought it! (honest)

If anyone knows the names of any real green alternative, please let me know here - quick!

Thanks to all,

Keith

[Two_Sheds]

If anyone knows the names of any real green alternative, please let me know here - quick!

You need to use barriers (fleece, environmesh etc) to keep the butterflies off.

Then you will still need to check for caterpillars, cos some will get in.

[srodders]

Is bordeaux mixture being banned as well?