Big scare - my girls

[Plot17B]

Hi Jilly,
Yes, def go for the course. They are fascinating little things and I defy you not to get hooked. The more you learn, the more you'll realise you have no idea what's truly going on! It's great.

Great that your fondant is being taken HF. It'll all be fine I'm sure. Best wishes and hope you all have a great holiday. Cheers all!
P17B

[HeyWayne]

Is there any way to insulate the hive HF? Like an old duvet or something?

I do hope your girls pull through - I almost feel like I know them.

[Plot17B]

Hi HW, sorry to butt in but thought I'd mention what I've done. Be interesting to hear how others protect their overwintering hives.

I've strapped my hive down with ratchet straps which, with the wind breaks should protect it from blowing over (the lottie is open with fields adjacent). I've also wrapped some black tarp around the hive, but it is important not to block the airflow through the side vents in the roof unit and up through the glass quilt. Condensation inside and lack of airflow is v bad for the bees. The black absorbs the sun's rays well, so on a cold frosty clear day will warm the hive quicker, reducing the effort needed by the girls slightly. It also just stops the rain hammering on the brood/supers.

Other than that, the bees just ball up and hunker down on the middle frames and vibrate wings to generate heat to keep larvae/eggs/colony warm enough. (Queenie should still be laying but at a greatly reduced rate, so still need to maintain the correct temp for proper maturation of the larvae).

Look forward to hearing other approaches!
:-) P17B

[crichmond]

Glad to hear that most are surviving upto now, I have 2 hives and so does my mate on our allotments 3 seem ok but 1 appears to have failed with a mass of bees being dead on the varroa floor. At the moment we are assuming we have lost the colony as it was a fairly weak colony going into winter. If the weather is mild over the next few days I will take the crown board off and have a look from above to see if there is any sign of life left in it.
I told my mate when he said he had lost the colony that if he has lost it we will restock by doing an artificial swarm when the time comes.

[Headfry]

What to do about the coming weeks -10 degs!!!!!!!!?????

If I bubble wrap the hive will the girls think it warmer and maybe break from their tight cluster only to perish in the cold hive.
Would bubble wrap make much difference anyway?
How can I get them through such cold conditions? I am once again very worried.

[Finedon.Dandy]

Hope they survive HF - have been praying for all the girls.

[Headfry]

Thank you Finedon.Dandy, I worry for all things and people who are out in this cold, cold weather. Hope all get through this and it turns milder again......please!

[Plot17B]

we've just hit -5.8 here, but sun is rising and it's starting to warm. Going to pop up to the lottie and check the hive.

One of my local groups (I've joined 2 for some reason) publish excellent newsletters and montly topical tips. Posting link here as interesting notes on supplementing bees with fondant, and how the bees may take it up "wrongly" and how to correct the situation. Maybe of interest to some? Stratford-upon-Avon & District Beekeepers' Association: Topical Tips for January 2009

Brrrrr. P17B

[Nicos]

I'm thinking of your gals...actually doing a bit of worrying for you- looks like Wednesday night is going to be the coldest of this snap.

What do commercial beekeepers do??

Can you build a tent out of bubblewrap and sacking ( you can get rolls of jute from some builders yards).... Woolen carpet pieces...... old felt underlay from a carpet shop ( they just chuck it out)

Hot water in 2litre plastic bottles nearby.

Can you stand the hive on something with insulation.

I bet 'shops' would donate insulation if you told them your bees may die- peeps have a soft spot for them.

Good luck xx

[Mcbee]

If they taken down the fondant and you've seen them flying recently then it sounds like they are quite healthy so as long as you've got enough bees to cuddle up together , you should be fine.

I know its a worry, and the thought of losing them is awful - but they are wild creatures and are probably hardier than you think.

[Headfry]

Thanks for all you help help and ideas. The problem is ...... lack of knowledge on my part!
If i make them warmer will they think it warmer than it really is and thus break away from their warm tight 'ball' - they gather together in a ball to keep warm, all the time this ball holds together they can (I have read) survive up to -28 deg!!!!!!!! WOW
If I open the top to feed will that disturb the 'ball' ?
Will it not make the hive colder?
Will the bees leave the 'ball' to get food and loose too much heat that way?
see it is a grand lack of knowledge on my part.
My poor girls.....
Still, although we have a dusting of snow this morning it is- by yesterdays standards (-2.5 most of the day with NO sun) much milder at a balmy +2 deg

[SlugLobber]

What about using garden fleece around the hive? It won't raise the temperature too much, but will take off the wind-chill. Hope they're ok. I was watching HFW with some bees on TV yesterday and would love to keep them, but I'd be too nervous I think!

[Mcbee]

Some of my friends always put fondant on the top bars on Boxing day - a sort of Christmas gift for the bees! Also quite practical as it should help them get by.

I'm not to sure that temperature is that an important issue. Yes it will play a part as there will be an absolute temp. below which the bees can't survive, however i think that the amount of stores you left in the hive could well be the deciding factor. As long as they've got adequate stores that are readily accessible (ie preferably not ivy or rape) they should be ok. They can move around the frames and use the stores up as they see fit. Gathering food is always a trade off about how much energy it costs to get it, compared to how much is gained from it. I suppose an individual bee might perish if it leaves the ball to get fondant, but if it brings it safely to the rest of the bees then that will be for the greater good of the colony.

Out of interest, what set up are they on, a brood box and super? And did you remove the queen excluder?

[Plot17B]

Now that's an interesting question indeed McBee. I've "done the experiment" on and off in 2008 and I'm very convinced they don't like going through the queen excluder. And I've got a nice rounded wire type, not a sharp edged excluder. Metal, so cold perhaps? But they've been reluctant to pass through at times despite lurvely syrup being just above them.

And our fellow keeper who I previously mentioned lost his colony was feeding his new swarm through the excluder (although I did ask why have it on when there was nothing to exclude as no super!). They wouldn't take his feed whatsover. Colony could not stabilise & was eventually lost.

So, excluders - essential for honey crops, and for supporting fondant, but not really liked by bees is my thesis. I could be talking tosh though.

[Mcbee]

No - i think you are right. I always removed the queen excluder in the winter. My logic was that whilst there would be honey in the brood, the majority of it would be in the super.

When the bees go into the ball for winter its to basically retain heat and keep each other warm. And at the centre of this ball is the queen. The "ball" will move very slowly through the stores, moving on as each area is used up. If you have removed the queen excluder then this isn't a problem, but if you've left it in then you will have prevented the queen from getting into the super, which is where the majority of the stores are. The bees are unlikley to want to leave the queen, as they'll be concerned for her survival, so they will probably leave the stores above the queen excluder. Unless there is a good supply in the brood, they'll all probably starve.

You do have to remember to put the queen excluder back in the spring, preferably before she is in lay, but if you have a prolific queen and are running a brood and a half, just put the excluder on the super (or half) and put all your other supers above this!