Another amazing event- the generous catterpillar

[Madame Mucksprout]

Another amazing find (Well I think so).

A caterpillar who has spun out his silk over a clutch of mini cocoons/eggs and is guarding them???

I cant believe a caterpillar would be this altruistic?? Maybe Ive got them all wrong.

I did read in Nat Geog once about a teeny wasp that lays its lave in caterpillars and they burst out of it driving it crazy, could this be a similar event? (The piece I read was somewhere tropical though).

Any ideas on what I’ve got here - I find it fascinating.

[Nicos]

Hmm...looks very interesting to me....

Caterpillars can't lay eggs ...tis their adult stage ( moth/butterfly)
I wonder if the eggs belong to a parasitic insect and the caterpillar has been paralysed???? ( first meal after hatching??)

Cor...it's very interesting .....more piccies I hope tomorrow???

[seasprout]

I'm not sure what you have, BUT I have seen invasion of the body snatchers and by now would be running for the hills.!!!

[Madame Mucksprout]

Ive left them to it - as it is really fascinating.
Im going to keep a regular check on them - see what happens, Ill get some photos if anythign changes.

Ill let you know.

Its sooooo exciting.

[Two_Sheds]

It's a parasitic wasp (British), that lays it's eggs inside a caterpillar. The larvae eat it from the inside out.

[Madame Mucksprout]

Its not dead - Ive just been out to have a good look and it reared up at me !!!!

Its very protective over the eggs.

Amazing.

[vikkib]

I did read in Nat Geog once about a teeny wasp that lays its lave in caterpillars and they burst out of it driving it crazy, could this be a similar event? (The piece I read was somewhere tropical though).

That sounds like the extended phenotype theory (as espoused in 'The Selfish Gene' and 'The Extended Phenotype' books by Richard Dawkins) and it is really fascinating.

There are quite a lot of examples in nature where one organism (or gene/group of genes if you go to a small enough scale) will be able to have a significant enough effect on another organism that it can make it do something that is completely detrimental to itself.

Sometimes these relationships end up being mutually beneficial or, at least, having a neutral(ish) effect on one of the partners and they can kind of become absorbed into one new organism over stages of evolution. There is a suggestion that these sort of relationships could have led to such a huge and wide range of cells/organs working together in our bodies!

Haven't got a clue what's going on with that caterpillar though!

[Madame Mucksprout]

Ive had a look and the catterpillar is still there today, reared up again but weak looking.

Vikki b - Crikey, someone does know thier stuff - bravo. It is indeed fascinating - Im so glad I get to watch it.
As soon as anything changes Ill jot it on here.
I dont think thier is anything mutally beneficial with this relationship, I cant see anything the caterpillar is gaining.
Sad - but fascinating. :-)

[Pumpkin Becki]

That sounds like the extended phenotype theory (as espoused in 'The Selfish Gene' and 'The Extended Phenotype' books by Richard Dawkins) and it is really fascinating.

There are quite a lot of examples in nature where one organism (or gene/group of genes if you go to a small enough scale) will be able to have a significant enough effect on another organism that it can make it do something that is completely detrimental to itself.

Sometimes these relationships end up being mutually beneficial or, at least,

Is that like Cuckoos? Or am I being too simple with that analogy?

[womble]

I think the caterpillar is stuck there, may be as a meal for the eggs inhabitants, maybe not.
I think it's a small cabbage whites caterpillar.

Be interesting to see what happens.

[vikkib]

Is that like Cuckoos? Or am I being too simple with that analogy?

Absolutely!

One of the examples he uses involves cuckoos. He suggests that there could be something in the way the baby cuckoos open their beaks really wide and cry and squawk to be fed that acts on the central nervous system of the host birds and essentially overrides their genetic and evoloutionary instincts and keeps them feeding the cuckoo babies. It could be a combination of the colour of the throats/calls that acts like a drug on the host birds system. So the phenotypic effect of the cuckoo's genes has an impact, a very serious one, on the host bird's behaviour.

It seems more likely to be something so powerful more than a mere mistake or oversight on the host bird's part (especially such a costly genetic mistake) as their gene's end with their clutch of eggs being turfed out of the nest and all their energy going into feeding the parasitical cuckoo.

I can't explain it as eloquantly or in anything like the depth and complexity of the book and I have never considered myself scientifically orientated (hated biology at school but had a lousy teacher) but if you have an interest in this sort of thing 'The Selfish Gene' is a truly amazing read. Dawkins can write in a way that a determined layman can get to grips with and it really made me want to learn loads more about it.

[Pumpkin Becki]

Absolutely!

It seems more likely to be something so powerful more than a mere mistake or oversight on the host bird's part (especially such a costly genetic mistake) as their gene's end with their clutch of eggs being turfed out of the nest and all their energy going into feeding the parasitical cuckoo.

Fascinating (and very eloquant), and as you say, there must be something built in that compels the adoptive parents to feed and raise the interloper.

On the other side of the coin, it makes me think of the male Swallow on Springwatch last year that turfed all the female's existing chicks out of the nest after he paired up with her - he must have known they weren't his genes, so he wasn't prepared to put in all that effort to raise them. But how did he 'know', and why wouldn't he wait for the first (perfectly healthy) brood to fledge before having another of his own. Nature's a complex thing isn't it.

[Madame Mucksprout]

The Caterpillar has gone!!!

Ive just beenout to see what new on the leaf and the caterpillar is not there?
Ive looked on the ground and cant see it, but it was really weak and a bit soft looking when I last looked. I think it died and dropped off the leaf (its been really windy).

The eggs are there, in thier cocoons and still intact.

I cant wait to see what comes out, Im rather tempeted to pop someting over the leaf to make sure I get to see them before the all go thier own ways (they grow up so fast lol).
Do you think this may harm them?

I think your right Womble - I have a lot of cabbage whites here and it is on a small slug ravaged cabbage leaf they were sat.

Ill keep my eyes peeled.

[veggielover]

I had one of those the other day, cabbage white with eggs under...... i picked the leaf and dropped the lot in a bucket of water. Facinating it may be but....... it was on my last sweet pepper plant!! No bug is taking that plant from me!!

[Melwel]

I had one of those the other day, cabbage white with eggs under...... i picked the leaf and dropped the lot in a bucket of water. Facinating it may be but....... it was on my last sweet pepper plant!! No bug is taking that plant from me!!

lol - clearly there is a time and a place for evolution and richard dawkins...but it aint the allotment!!