Garden birds disappearing not surprising.

[Madasafish]

I'm with Buleste on this.

Beekeepers in the towns and cities fare better than many in the countryside as there is less pollution from insecticides and a wider choice of forage... And scientific studies confirm this I believe.

Saying that, all our birds are in the Biddulph Grange gardens and woods at present as it is mild. All we see are a few blackbirds, tits, sparrows , pigeons and collared doves. Lots of pigeons.. as attested to by the feathers when caught by the local peregrine falcons.

I'm a guerilla planter though...

[cheops]

Bigmally - not sure what your extensive research was but I put into google do squirrels take eggs or chicks and mmediately came up with this -- - 'our squirrels destroyed two Dunnock nests for eggs last year and also killed young blackbirds in the nest.
I believe they are considered responsible for declines in hole/box nesting species as they chew in and eat whats inside.'
Then i googled - do crows / magpies predate eggs/fledglings? and IMMEDIATELY got this --The RSPB does cull magpies and crows at some of its reserves where it thinks that predation is a problem at a local level. In some cases, it says, bird populations have fallen to such an extent (due to other reasons) that predation can be the final straw
And now for the cats - doi need to google - do cats predate fledglings -- of course not - we all know it happens - though to what extent we can debate for ever.
And a footnote whilst cats have been mentioned [ not relevent to bird populations however] I would like to point out that I have to date never had a responsible cat owner knock my door, apologise for the disturbance to my newly tilled and sown seed bed and whilst clutching a plastic bag in their hand offerering to remove the cat excrement from the seed bed just in case my young children might be budding gardeners and put their little hands in it.

[Vince G]

I took part in the RSPB survey at the weekend. I made a prediction of what I thought I would see, namely:

Definitely gulls, magpies, collared doves, woodpigeons, blackbirds.
Possibly: robin, tits, wren, sparrow, jay

Pretty much spot on. All the definites turned up, plus a robin.

All the possibles used to be definites, and there were other possibles which have now virtually vanished such as thrushes, various finches and warblers and the odd bird of prey like a sparrowhawk, plus winter visitors like fieldfares, redwings and waxwings.

Our songbirds and finches are in real trouble in this country, as are once common birds like starlings and sparrows.

[scarey55]

I wonder if the lack of hedges have done for the sparrows? Here in our part of France there are loads of hedges between fields and there are loads of sparrows. Interestingly, we don't have many starlings - in fact, I am pretty sure that I haven't ever seen one in over seven years living here, don't know why though.

My feeling is that it is mostly about habitat, I have nothing to base that on really other than what I've just said. I guess that there are many who are trying to answer this question but I'm sure it is not as easy as it would seem

[Two_Sheds]

"Domestic cats kill many more wild birds in the United States than scientists thought, according to a new analysis." https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...irds-each-year

"55 million birds killed by cats in the UK every year" according to the Mammal Society.

"Some pet cats are killing a lot of birds around the UK, a new study shows.
Previous studies suggest cats bring home around one in three things they kill ...'Even if a cat isn't killing often, there are so many of them in a small area that they can have a very serious impact" [on local bird populations]source

I would have thought that the days of 'putting the cat out for the night' are over

Not where we live, for sure. Cats are to be seen walking the streets day & night. None of our immediate neighbours have a cat, but there are 3 that come and dump in my garden, and another 4 at least that dump on my allotment. And we've had no baby blackbirds in their usual hedge for the last 2 years. Cats have been picking off the babies in the nests, and now the adults aren't nesting there.

I'd also be interested in why you think that RSPB are in denial.

... everyone knows that cats kill birds. All we're arguing about is the number of kills.

RSPB depends on donations. If they start blaming cats (and thereby, their owners), they won't get as many donations. They say "It is likely that most of the birds killed by cats would have died anyway".

It's like all stories: a person will believe what they want to believe. If I was a cat owner, I'd of course consider myself to be an animal lover. I wouldn't want to believe that my pet was killing birds, so I'd say "I've never seen it ... he wouldn't hurt a fly ... she's too lazy ... she's too well fed, etc", or I'd blame something else for bird decline, something 'much worse' (farming, cars, magpies, etc)


But it's not just the killing that cats do that is a problem, "they also alter their [prey's] behaviour", and this study looked at the impact of cats on nesting blackbirds.

My feelings re: cats are based on my own observations of their behaviour. I see them stalking my garden birds (and my guinea pigs). Not just one, I'm having to deal with up to 7 cats, and those are only the ones that I see when I'm around: I'm not up all night looking for them.

[Madasafish]

Cats left out over night here tend to end up as fox fodder...

[Thelma Sanders]

The American report is next to useless because the numbers they use have such a huge variation, they cannot be counted as reliable.

America’s cats, including housecats that adventure outdoors and feral cats, kill between 1.3 billion and 4.0billion

The results are remarkable, not only for the big number, but also for the proportion of deaths from feral cats,” says Gary M. Langham, chief scientist for the National Audubon Society. The study assigns 861 million to 3.3 billion bird deaths a year to these wild cats. “These numbers really elevate this threat to a new level.”

To figure out how much wildlife cats catch, Marra and his colleagues combed the scientific literature for the best assessments of how many cats live in the United States and of what cats there and in similar climates hunt. Roughly 114 million cats live in the contiguous United States, 84 million of which share people’s houses. Forty to 70 percent of those household cats do at least some roaming outside. Between half and 80 percent of those outdoor cats hunt.

Basically they're not sure about anything

[Nicos]

No-one seems to have mentioned rats eating bird's eggs and chicks.

With the increasing number of rats- due to more household rubbish being available to them I'm sure they too must affect numbers of birds too.

[Madasafish]

No signs of more rats here.. In winter after a frost, the marks and steam around their holes are a giveaway...

The late spring last year meant fewer insects at hatchling time. Birds need to feed young on protein for quick growth.. everything here was 4-6 weeks late... mainly the insects..


Bird populations fluctuate wildly after bad winters.

[bearded bloke]

Statistics & surveys you gotta luv em,if anyone has a definite viewpoint they can be used to prove/disprove any point.
The compulsory wearing of crash helmets on motorcycles was brought about by the selected use of statistics from some American states where it had been "proven" that they save lives due to the reduction of skull injuries,fair enough you say,but go to America today & there are still many states where the wearing of crash helmets is still optional to the rider/pillion,this is because statistics also prove that crash helmets can actually kill people because of increased occurrence of neck injuries to wearers.
It's a circular argument that will never be fully resolved.

[AllInContainers]

Where I am (my backyard) cats and birds of prey would be the biggest threats to small birds. I have probably three or four local cats pass by/through my garden daily. Squirrels would be a factor in two or three locations within a 1 mile radius, but we don't see any in our gardens.

The next factor is whether they have a reason to spend any time here, such as food and water sources as well as local shelter. There are a couple of large trees in neighbouring gardens, but no water sources of note. No doubt outside this 1 mile radius, conditions will vary and the wildlife will fluctuate accordingly.

Attempting to generalise this is nigh on futile in my opinion, as the results observed will be so localised (as per my comments above). Here cats are a problem, but 1/2 a mile away cats are not the problem, squirrels are. There is more on offer in respect of food and water and shelter where the squirrels are than where the cats are.

Too many factors at play ....

[Nicos]

We also have barn owls and tawny owls and stone martins in our locality munching their way through eggs and young birds- not to mention the buzzards and other raptors grabbing whatever they can.

[BertieFox]

Probably already been said above, but walk along any stretch of busy road and you will find dozens of birds which have become road kill if you look carefully. The main factor is definitely the change in agricultural practices and the loss of nesting habitat. While most of these birds appear in our gardens, the majority are just visitors and depend on the wider countryside for their survival. Until we farm with wildlife in mind this decline will continue. Cats may kills a large number but have been around since I was a child 67 years ago, and we had plenty of birds in our gardens back then.

[Jeanied]

Well my tuppence worth (after passing on my handy tip for stopping your cat from catching birds), is that I think removal of habitat is the biggest contributor. I haven't seen a sparrow in my garden for years- especially since I got rid of a thug of a leylandii hedge going down one side of my garden. Since then I have had the whole lot re-landscaped and two trees put in (it is a small terraced garden in west London).
These days I get loads of birds because I put out feeders and who like the trees - especially the crab apple which holds on to the apples most of the winter. The cat is in all night and the dog sees off any stray cats daring to come in the garden. The birds are everywhere. This morning I was treated to a very low fly-past of 4 swans and had to chuckle at the cormorants gossiping in a tree by the canal at the end of my road. And then I saw a dunnock picking up some of the seeds I spilled when topping up the feeder. My solution is to put out lots of feeders even in a small space, and if you live in an urban situation like me, encourage your neighbours!

[shellyanne1987]

Those grey squirrels are tasty though i think more people should try it as a food then we could start to cut back their numbers!


Sent from my iPhone using Grow Your Own Forum