Idiot Question about Fresh Horse Manure

[Andraste]

We're keen to improve our soil but any time I've ever read anything about manure it's always accompanied by advice that it should have been rotted down for at least 6 months, especially if it has a high straw content, & don't put it on the bed you plan to grow your root crops in. Otherwise, it could be used when constructing hot beds. I'm managing to grasp it this far

OH's friend keeps horses & has offered him as much muck as he wants as well as delivering to the plot. A very generous offer (we know a fellow plotter has collected manure from them for several years so no issues with nasty chemicals), but when I asked how fresh it is we believe it's likely to be no more than a week or two old.

We don't have space on our 1/2 plot to give over to manure rotting & have no plans for a hotbed (maybe the latter will happen in a year or two when we've got a better handle on standard growing).

But, never one to turn down a freebie, I'm trying to think of a way we could say yes, so here is my idiot's question:

I'm looking at the calendar & thinking end of October, November, December............ we have 6 months to April 2024. Does that mean we could spread the fresh muck on the 'not roots beds' in the next week or so, cover/not cover with plastic overwinter, & be good to plant in the beds in April/May 2024?

[Plot70]

We have communal manure heaps.
This allows us to have manure of variable rotting time.
The stuff we have been getting this last year or so has been low straw and on our heavy clay soil has been a bit less useful for improving soil structure.
Wood chips that have been rotted for a year is very useful on our soil.
Rotted wood chip and manure mix is very good.

[Snoop Puss]

I'd do what you're suggesting but only on beds that are empty now, which I presume is what you're planning. Spread it out and just leave till next spring. Not even sure I'd cover it with anything else, just consider the muck sufficient cover in itself and let the rain and frost break it down a bit for you so it's not too clumpy come the spring.

[burnie]

As your supply is free from chemicals, the only problem with horse muck is the heat, so after 6 months it should be fine, though covered in plastic it might over heat a bit and damage soil bacteria. Personally I don't use it, but if I were to, I might leave it in a heap and apply it in the early spring, maybe March time?

[Andraste]

Thanks for the advice I'll suggest to OH that we just use it on the one bed we have which is currently completely empty - it's the area in greatest need of soil improvement also so will be of most benefit anyway - & leave uncovered over winter.

Our ideal crop rotation (we use 3-year) would be beans & roots - it's where we had the spuds which failed this year (due to our silly too cold & wet planting) & had brassicas the year before - but that's not going to be a good idea for roots now if we're adding the manure to it.

We thankfully don't appear to have any ground bourn issues for either spuds or brassicas on the plot, so I'm wondering which would benefit more from the manure addition.

Do you think we'd be better off putting spuds or brassicas in this bed?

[Snoop Puss]

Muck can apparently cause scab in potatoes, although it's quite a while off till you put your first ones in. But better safe than sorry.

Are you proposing to dig it in or just leave it on the surface? I'd be tempted to leave it on the surface and put brassicas in the bed. Brassicas like firm soil as they're quite large plants and can get rocked by wind if the soil is very loose and soft. Rocking breaks the roots and the plants don't do as well.

[Andraste]

Thanks Snoop Puss,

We're thinking to leave it on the surface over winter &, depending on the consistency of it come spring, will either leave it alone or maybe fork it in.

[Nicos]

I don’t know much about the ins and outs of composting fresh horse manure but I’m putting out these ideas - so please everyone comment if you don’t think they would work!

Firstly would a deep dug out bean trench filled with the manure rot down in time for planting out next year’s climbing beans?

Also , following on from experience with fresh cow and straw manure, can you create a mound of the manure…or dig down into a bed to make it deep then fill it ready for growing for planting out squash/ marrows? (Using the good topsoil elsewhere)We grew our best ever marrows in a pile of overwintered cow muck a few years back.

Or…take off the top layer of soil, infill with the manure and grass clippings and shredded cardboard then recover with the topsoil to create a ‘variation on a theme’ of a hugelkultur bed?

Not sure if these might work or the ideas need adapting.

[burnie]

I think the idea of doing a "trial" on a small area would be the best idea, you could lose a whole years crops if something doesn't work, this applies to anything you are unsure about, not just muck spreading

[Snoop Puss]

I reckon all those ideas would work, Nicos.

I've done your second idea with courgettes and it worked a treat.

[Andraste]

Thank you for more great tips & ideas

OH's arranged for 6 bags to be delivered on Wednesday next week - we'll need more but it's readily available so we'll start with that so that we can establish just how much more.

Our aim is to just put the manure on 1 of our 3 rotation beds this year (it's the only crop free one we have at the moment anyway). We could probably create a bean trench with some but I might skip that idea until next year depending on how much time (& muck) we have available in the next few weeks

I won't have squash in beds next year (not enough space) but do plan to try some Uchiki Kuri in large pots (about 45cm/18" diameter, probably with the bottom cut out) to grow vertically up the trellis of our bench. We could easily fill the pot with manure now & plant into that next year Do you think this would also work for cucumbers as those will be climbing our shed from another pot of the same ilk or would manure be too rich for them?

[Snoop Puss]

I won't have squash in beds next year (not enough space) but do plan to try some Uchiki Kuri in large pots (about 45cm/18" diameter, probably with the bottom cut out) to grow vertically up the trellis of our bench. We could easily fill the pot with manure now & plant into that next year Do you think this would also work for cucumbers as those will be climbing our shed from another pot of the same ilk or would manure be too rich for them?

Penellype, I thought you might be best placed to answer Andraste's questions above seeing as you use a hotbed. Do you have any views?

[Penellype]

Penellype, I thought you might be best placed to answer Andraste's questions above seeing as you use a hotbed. Do you have any views?

I'll have a go.

Like compost, manure rots down quicker the hotter it gets. The amount of time it takes depends both on the size of the pile and what type of bedding was used. Straw bedding rots down much faster than wood shavings. A large and compact pile will get much hotter then a thin layer spread on the soil, so I would put it in as compact a pile as possible and tread it firmly. If you can cover it with something to keep the heat in (eg a layer of soil, cardboard etc) that may help. Then when you want to use it either spread it out or fill containers with it, but I would advise using at least a layer of compost on top, as you would if you were constructing a hotbed.

I have used 30 litre buckets part-filled with completely fresh horse manure and topped up with 2-3 inches of compost to grow melons, tomatoes and courgettes and they have performed well. I have not used it for cucumbers, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. After several months it will still look like horse manure especially round the edges, but the initial flush of heat will have gone and it should be fine to use as a mulch or to grow things in, but if you are using just manure it may lack minerals so it is important to feed your plants with something like tomato feed for good results. I grow potatoes in last year's hotbed compost, but they do need feeding.

The bean trench idea would also work well, again cover the trench with a layer of soil.

Fresh horse manure shrinks as it rots - expect it to be about 1/3 of its original (packed down) volume eventually - the length of time will depend on the factors above. Therefore if you part-fill containers with it you can expect the compost level to drop quite a bit over time.

As a guide, my hotbeds are roughly 6ft x 3ft by 18 inches deep made with wood shavings based bedding, and they don't really get as hot as they should because they only have wooden sides (ideally the sides should be insulated eg with straw bales, and the bed should be 2-3ft deep). Made in January, the compost has shrunk noticeably by the end of the summer but still contains recognizable lumps of poo and is still obviously wood based. In this state it makes a great mulch, the rough surface of the wood being a good slug deterrent.

[Snoop Puss]

Penellype, that's absolutely brilliant info. Thank you. Are there any things you wouldn't grow in a hotbed? I've seen that muck is supposed to make root crops fork, but I've recently read that that's a myth that has been debunked. It makes it hard to know who to believe.

[Andraste]

Thanks Penellype, the best advice is always from those who've had practical experience (such as your good self)

I'll try filling the pots with the manure when we get hold of it in the coming week or so, cover with an old compost bag/similar, then top up with MPC in the spring before planting.

I'm sure that will make our squash & cucs happier than this year - we only had one fruit off each plant lol. On the bright side, as always we learnt more from failure than success. A combination of bad weather (lots of squash set then rotted), slugs (no pellets used until it was too late & lots of rain) & planting straight into the ground without adding any goodies. I also waited too long to admit my 1st cuc sowing wasn't going to germinate & the squash were stuck in their pots longer than they should have been before being released (planting delayed for 2-3 weeks as we finish building the shed & waited for the bench to arrive).