Biological farming - better than organic and conventional?

[purpleone]

Hey everybody

I recently came across this method of growing. It allegedly gives incredible results and I am currently experimenting with it. Sometimes they call it biological farming. It is organic way of farming but a little bit advanced I would say. They say it is cheaper and you can produce larger quantity and more nutritious and more tasty fruits and veggies (or whatever it is that you are growing) when you compare it to organic or conventional approach.

Instead of tilling, fertilizing and spraying our plants we can allegedly put micro-organisms that will do all the work. Now, unfortunately when we hear the word micro-organisms we usually associate them with something bad like diseases but the truth is that there are way more good guys that bad guys and good guys live even in our body especially out intestine(like probiotic bacteria). Beside our body they also live in the soil. And if there is enough of these in the soil we don't have to till, we don't need to fertilise or spray, they do all the work. The best thing of all is that they multiply by them self so once we have them we don't have to put them again and again in large amounts every year like we do with fertilizers and so on. The work is reduced. It seems that evry year we work less and less.

You can use it if you are a small grower or a big industrial farmer.

Here is a great lecture from dr Elaine Ingham at Oxford Real Farming Conference (ORFC) where she explains this method much better that I would.

I have seen a lot of these lectures and if you have any question I will do my best to help you.

Here is the lecture

https://youtu.be/x2H60ritjag

Please note, I am a beginner at this. I might be wrong at some claims. I tried to interpret it the best I could. Watch the lecture please.

[veggiechicken]

Sorry Purpleone - but that link is over 90 minutes long. Life's too short............
There's a summary at
The roots of your health: Elaine Ingham on the science of soil - Sustainable Food Trust - Sustainable Food Trust and, as I read it, the way forward is through compost - added to the soil.
Have I missed something?

[purpleone]

Yes it is 90 minutes long But if you are a serious grower and if this all is truth(and it seems like it is) it can save you tons of time, money and energy. So 90 minutes is worth it by my opinion. And that is because you are listening it from the mouth of a real expert who is a scientist but also very practical person that actually works with big industrial framers all around the world. However if you really don't have time right now you can see this one that is shorter:

https://youtu.be/WHckFprozDc

Here is another great 90 minutes lecture. You can see the slides better here:

https://youtu.be/xzthQyMaQaQ

[purpleone]

And yeah, you are right, you do it through composting. But you have to do composting properly so you grow all the microorganism required and kill all the bad guys. That is where most of the people make mistakes apparently. They compost but not so they get all they need.

[Snoop Puss]

Hi purpleone, don't take this amiss but my first reaction after reading VC's link is: what's new? You'll find a lot of people on here doing their best along similar lines. No-dig, use green manures, make compost, etc. Nobody would argue with improving soil. On the other hand, you'll also find people like me who use the occasional chemical to help things along.

There is no one best way for all circumstances. There are general principles with a bit of this and that on the side to suit particular conditions.

[Greenleaves]

Charles Dowding springs to mind ???

[Guest]

Yes it is 90 minutes long But if you are a serious grower and if this all is truth(and it seems like it is) it can save you tons of time, money and energy. So 90 minutes is worth it by my opinion. And that is because you are listening it from the mouth of a real expert who is a scientist but also very practical person that actually works with big industrial framers all around the world. However if you really don't have time right now you can see this one that is shorter:

Thank you for the vid and explanation. Will have a scan through it at some point. You may be in the wrong place if you don't think people are serious gardeners/ growers here. There is no right or wrong way to garden and different ways will suit different people. I think on the whole peeps on here try to find a balance between wildlife (including microscopic organisms) and what the grower/ gardener wants.

Other methods include:- keyhole gardening, huglekultur, no dig, permaculture, lasagne beds, forest gardening, conventional gardening (which doesn't have to include scary nasty chemicals that destroy everything). The list goes on

If this is what works for you then great and I look forward to seeing your progress

[Mr Bones]

Hi Purpleone, we started doing this a few years back. If you haven't come across it already, Teaming With Microbes by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis is a worthwhile read.

[veggiechicken]

Yes it is 90 minutes long But if you are a serious grower and if this all is truth(and it seems like it is) it can save you tons of time, money and energy. So 90 minutes is worth it by my opinion. And that is because you are listening it from the mouth of a real expert who is a scientist but also very practical person that actually works with big industrial framers all around the world. However if you really don't have time right now you can see this one that is shorter:.....

Of course I'm a "serious grower" but I do it my way, working with nature. I don't need a method that saves me "tons of time, money and energy" - that may be appropriate for farmers but its not for me.
Maybe you could tell us about your own plot, what you grow and where, because that would interest me more than 3 hours of lecture videos.

[Greenleaves]

Hi Purpleone

I have replaced the video's with links as they have an impact on page loading times.

A polite reminder to all

Links only please

[purpleone]

Hi purpleone, don't take this amiss but my first reaction after reading VC's link is: what's new? You'll find a lot of people on here doing their best along similar lines. No-dig, use green manures, make compost, etc. Nobody would argue with improving soil. On the other hand, you'll also find people like me who use the occasional chemical to help things along.

There is no one best way for all circumstances. There are general principles with a bit of this and that on the side to suit particular conditions.

Hi Snoop Puss I won't take it amiss, don't worry That is why I posted it here. I'd like to hear people's opinions and maybe learn something new.

What I believe is new here is that she says that all you need is to fix the biology once. And that you can usually do that in one year. After that, once you have fixed your biology, she says you don't have to do anything ever again. You don't have to fertilize every year. You don't have to put compost every year. You don't have to use green manures. You don't have to spray. No pesticides, herbicides or anything whatsoever. No organic or conventional nothing. You don't have to do anything except watering(and that is reduced too) ever again. As log as you don't kill the biology everything will be on autopilot. That seems pretty attractive to me.

She is not saying that you must do it this way. Many ways work. And I too think that people like to do things their own way and I think that is great... I just wanted to bring this one up because someone may like it more. And I especially believe that big farmers could use this. So they can substantially reduce expenses of money, energy and time and increase yields. That's all.

Now, I just started experimenting with this. I am not claiming anything. Just saying what she says. When I have the results I will share them here. Maybe it doesn't work. But she seems very serious and experienced. We'll see.

[purpleone]

Charles Dowding springs to mind ???

Hi Greenleaves

Yes, but he uses all kinds of stuff and does it every year as much as I can see. Dr I. says that you can fix things in first year in most cases(by using compost and compost tea) and you don't have to do anything ever again. Except planting annual plants of course and watering. That seems even better to me.

[purpleone]

Thank you for the vid and explanation. Will have a scan through it at some point. You may be in the wrong place if you don't think people are serious gardeners/ growers here. There is no right or wrong way to garden and different ways will suit different people. I think on the whole peeps on here try to find a balance between wildlife (including microscopic organisms) and what the grower/ gardener wants.

Other methods include:- keyhole gardening, huglekultur, no dig, permaculture, lasagne beds, forest gardening, conventional gardening (which doesn't have to include scary nasty chemicals that destroy everything). The list goes on

If this is what works for you then great and I look forward to seeing your progress

Hi Norfolkgrey You are welcome.

I didn't express my self correctly. I should have said big farmers instead of serious growers above.

I am not saying that there is right or wrong way to garden or farm. But I do believe that some ways are easier, less expensive, and healthier. I personally never came across something that seems less cost, energy and time expensive and healthier than this. I'd like to, so if someone believes that there is the way please say so.

Some people like to do it their own way even if it takes more time, energy and money because they enjoy it. And if it is so then God bless them, I would not like to disturb them and I wish them all the best. I just wanted to post this here so people can discover this too and some of them may like it more.

[purpleone]

Hi Purpleone, we started doing this a few years back. If you haven't come across it already, Teaming With Microbes by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis is a worthwhile read.

Hi Mr Bones Thank you for that. I heard about that book. I will probably order it. Thanks.

How do you like the results of applying this stuff so far?

[purpleone]

Of course I'm a "serious grower" but I do it my way, working with nature. I don't need a method that saves me "tons of time, money and energy" - that may be appropriate for farmers but its not for me.
Maybe you could tell us about your own plot, what you grow and where, because that would interest me more than 3 hours of lecture videos.

Veggiechicken I didn't want to offend you. I didn't express my self correctly. I should have said big farmers instead of serious growers above.

If you like your way of growing and if it works than great, I wish all the luck and I would not try to force you into doing something you don't want.

I just think that this may save people's time, energy and money by working with nature as well. So some people may like it. Some may not. And of course I might learn about some even better way here on this forum. That is why I came.

You asked about what do I do. We have around 100 fruit trees and around 100 grapevines. We were using mostly conventional stuff for around three decades or more and we are not happy at all. It seems like we have to fertilise more every year, spray more, water more. And we have more and more problems. Beside that I don't like chemicals at all. So I was looking for a way to work with nature if that is possible and the easiest and most efficient way to do it. What dr I. is saying here seems the best that I have found so far so I just started doing it. We'll see how it works.