Biological farming - better than organic and conventional?

[marchogaeth]

you guys are as lovely as ever!

[purpleone]

Snoop, again, if you want answers to all those questions you are going to have to watch her lectures. I understand your logic. But don't you think that a person that has an education that she has and results and reputation that she has deserves your trust until you prove otherwise? Maybe you don't but I think so.

Let me try to answer what you have asked.

You can know exactly what types of organisms are lacking in your soil. You can do that with a simple microscope. You don't need to know every singe bacteria or fungi or protozoa that is needed in your soil. There are millions and millions of species. Practice shows that all you need to know is that for an example you have sufficient number of bacteria and you don't have enough fungi. So you make a compost that is more fungal dominated. Your compost will be made from plant material from your surrounding area so all the indigenous species needed will grow and multiply by them self. You don't need to worry about that. Once you have the number of bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes needed you are done. They will do all the work. However you may need to apply biology more than once to establish that. And you may need to add some every year to maintain it but every year you have to work less and less as she said.

How do you achieve a compost that contains the beneficial microorganisms and not the harmful ones? By composting properly(which includes temperature and presence of oxygen) so you kill all the bad guys and grow the right ones.

You don't need to worry about soil biology altering over the course of the year depending on the weather conditions. Some will go to sleep and be less active in one part of the year and some will go to sleep and wake up and be active during other part of the year. During some parts of the year they are all active.

You are right about different plants requiring different biology but most of them require the same. That is easy to solve. All annuals require pretty much the same biology. All the perennials pretty much the same. So if someone needs both he makes two piles of compost. One for perennials and one for annuals.

Yes, apparently you will need to add biology every year. But every year you have to do less and less she said. So let's say that you have 1000m2 and this year you have fixed the biology with two piles of compost 1m wide and 1m high. Next year you see under the microscope that you may need to add little bit more. So you make one compost pile this time. Next year half of that. Next year maybe half of half.

And I also believe that she said that you may come to a point where you don't need to do anything unless some serious disturbance happens. Like big fire maybe or something similar.

It sound to me much easier than putting tons of stuff every year. That is how I understand it works and I am willing to give it a try. Even If I would have to make two piles of compost every year it's still much much easier to me than what most of the growers do.

[Thelma Sanders]

But don't you think that a person that has an education that she has and results and reputation that she has deserves your trust until you prove otherwise?

Nope! I trust nobody who says you can fix this and that and expects you to buy things/pay for lectures etc to follow their method, it would be like buying snake oil after seeing an advert.
Call me cynical and sceptical if you like, because I cannot understand why you are so insistent that this method must work - when you haven't even tried it yourself. It rings alarm bells for me...

Tell you what - you try it and come back in a few years to tell us what you did and whether it has really worked for you........

[ESBkevin]

Snoop, again, if you want answers to all those questions you are going to have to watch her lectures. I understand your logic. But don't you think that a person that has an education that she has and results and reputation that she has deserves your trust until you prove otherwise? Maybe you don't but I think so.

Let me try to answer what you have asked.

You can know exactly what types of organisms are lacking in your soil. You can do that with a simple microscope. You don't need to know every singe bacteria or fungi or protozoa that is needed in your soil. There are millions and millions of species. Practice shows that all you need to know is that for an example you have sufficient number of bacteria and you don't have enough fungi. So you make a compost that is more fungal dominated. Your compost will be made from plant material from your surrounding area so all the indigenous species needed will grow and multiply by them self. You don't need to worry about that. Once you have the number of bacteria, fungi, protozoa and nematodes needed you are done. They will do all the work. However you may need to apply biology more than once to establish that. And you may need to add some every year to maintain it but every year you have to work less and less as she said.

How do you achieve a compost that contains the beneficial microorganisms and not the harmful ones? By composting properly(which includes temperature and presence of oxygen) so you kill all the bad guys and grow the right ones.

You don't need to worry about soil biology altering over the course of the year depending on the weather conditions. Some will go to sleep and be less active in one part of the year and some will go to sleep and wake up and be active during other part of the year. During some parts of the year they are all active.

You are right about different plants requiring different biology but most of them require the same. That is easy to solve. All annuals require pretty much the same biology. All the perennials pretty much the same. So if someone needs both he makes two piles of compost. One for perennials and one for annuals.

Yes, apparently you will need to add biology every year. But every year you have to do less and less she said. So let's say that you have 1000m2 and this year you have fixed the biology with two piles of compost 1m wide and 1m high. Next year you see under the microscope that you may need to add little bit more. So you make one compost pile this time. Next year half of that. Next year maybe half of half.

And I also believe that she said that you may come to a point where you don't need to do anything unless some serious disturbance happens. Like big fire maybe or something similar.

It sound to me much easier than putting tons of stuff every year. That is how I understand it works and I am willing to give it a try. Even If I would have to make two piles of compost every year it's still much much easier to me than what most of the growers do.

This reminds me of one of the videos by One yard revolution on youtube.
They have been making so much compost over the years that they no longer have to turn it to accelerate its production or collect as much material because the established beds have all the fertillity they need and the soil life is fantastic. They hardly ever add any fertiliser or amendments nowadays. All as a result of a number of years invested in their small plot.
I think it's this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKZz9d7k2NY

[HoneyChild]

I also like One Yard Revolution. Another YT channel I like is I Am Organic Gardenning. He does follow Elaine Ingram but doesn't actually make compost or compost tea. Instead he spreads leaves or woodchips then grows a variety of covercrops to create soil. He does this on a commercial scale https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE0...joiTmpu9m3vvwQ

[ESBkevin]

I also like One Yard Revolution. Another YT channel I like is I Am Organic Gardenning. He does follow Elaine Ingram but doesn't actually make compost or compost tea. Instead he spreads leaves or woodchips then grows a variety of covercrops to create soil. He does this on a commercial scale https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCE0...joiTmpu9m3vvwQ

Yes Mark at I am Organic gardening has a great way of simplifying the science of why we should do this or that. Also Mark does well to bring up his family alone especially when one son is disabled and requires a great deal of attention. I'm a big fan of his videos.

[purpleone]

Purpleone I can't recall the specific Korean farming videos I have watched (quite a few as it happens but not recently). It's a term that refers to making IMO and adding it to foliage and the ground during the growing season to enhance the 'Good Bugs' and defeat the 'Bad Bugs'
Have a search for making IMO, this might give you a start here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgTe4GUXzeQ

There are several stages to making and using IMO 1 through to IMO 5. I've yet to make IMO 1 let alone developing it to IMO 5, but it all tried and tested.

Have a look and see what you think.

Awesome video. Thanks ESBkevin

[purpleone]

This reminds me of one of the videos by One yard revolution on youtube.
They have been making so much compost over the years that they no longer have to turn it to accelerate its production or collect as much material because the established beds have all the fertillity they need and the soil life is fantastic. They hardly ever add any fertiliser or amendments nowadays. All as a result of a number of years invested in their small plot.
I think it's this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKZz9d7k2NY

Yes I believe that is it. He probably established the biology and now he can put less compost.

[purpleone]

I also like One Yard Revolution.
They made me interested in this type of farming along with John Kohler.

Thanks for the suggestion HoneyChild. I will take a look at that channel.

[purpleone]

Nope! I trust nobody who says you can fix this and that and expects you to buy things/pay for lectures etc to follow their method, it would be like buying snake oil after seeing an advert.
Call me cynical and sceptical if you like, because I cannot understand why you are so insistent that this method must work - when you haven't even tried it yourself. It rings alarm bells for me...

Tell you what - you try it and come back in a few years to tell us what you did and whether it has really worked for you........

Would you go to Oxford or Cambridge?
No? Because they cost money?
How about Harvard university? MIT?
Are those free? Do they sell snake oil?

I would be more concerned if her courses were cheap.

And BTW you can have so much of her information for free.
You don't have to buy her courses. Those courses are more for some serious commercial farmers if I understood correctly.
Properly made compost (extract and tea) should be more than enough for small scale growers and you can see how to make them on her website and on youtube for free.

You do have to know how to check the biology in your compost and your soil. So you will need the microscope and you will need to know how your microbes look like. You may have to buy one book that will tech you how microbes look. The book is "Light Microscope Method" and you have it on her website(soilfoodweb.com). I believe that is all one needs. It's worth the money by my opinion.

Like I said before, I don't claim that what she is saying is true.
But she has some impressive reputation and so far I have not found anyone that have tried what she suggested and was disappointed. So I am willing to give it a try.

[Thelma Sanders]

purpleone:So I am willing to give it a try

Good luck then...

[purpleone]

Thanks!

Does anybody know how to accelerate growth of trees?
I would apreciate any suggestion or experience

[Snoop Puss]

^Hi, purpleone. You might do well to start a new thread in the Feeling Fruity section of the forum rather than adding to this thread, as it will be seen by people who know about trees.

[purpleone]

Thanks Snoop! I will do that

[Guest]

Thanks!

Does anybody know how to accelerate growth of trees?
I would apreciate any suggestion or experience

Pruning - root, bark (part, don't ring the tree or you will kill it) and branch.
Grafting - rootstock or scion. Once the graft is part of the tree it should then share the genetics. So if the tree is slow growing and the graft fast growing 'they should in theory' meet somewhere inbetween
Environment - remove competition of other plants from around the base to the dripline of the tree, improve soil, feed the tree.