Cabbage root problems

[Sarah-lou]

Hi there,

I'm new on here and could do with some advise, I have taken over an allotment this year, it's been hard work clearing all the weeds and rubbish, but we have managed to get some crops this year with great results, except for my cabbages, which i grew from seed, I noticed that a lot of them over the growing season hav e failed and never really grew at all, so on Sunday I pulled a few of the bigger ones out to find that there were no roots on any of the ones I pulled and those that had got roots seemed to have some sort of bug on them, now I went home and consulted the books but couldn't find anything that looked like this bug, I've dismissed cabbage root fly and (hopefully) club root, it looked like a thin worm about 1-2 cm long and the roots were swollen with lots of craters in them which housed these bugs, the worm type things were a sort of yellowy cream in colour. Does anybody have any ideas or suggestions as to what they might be, and how I can get rid of them organically?

Thanks in advance

Sarah

[Snadger]

Hi there,

I'm new on here and could do with some advise, I have taken over an allotment this year, it's been hard work clearing all the weeds and rubbish, but we have managed to get some crops this year with great results, except for my cabbages, which i grew from seed, I noticed that a lot of them over the growing season hav e failed and never really grew at all, so on Sunday I pulled a few of the bigger ones out to find that there were no roots on any of the ones I pulled and those that had got roots seemed to have some sort of bug on them, now I went home and consulted the books but couldn't find anything that looked like this bug, I've dismissed cabbage root fly and (hopefully) club root, it looked like a thin worm about 1-2 cm long and the roots were swollen with lots of craters in them which housed these bugs, the worm type things were a sort of yellowy cream in colour. Does anybody have any ideas or suggestions as to what they might be, and how I can get rid of them organically?

Thanks in advance

Sarah

Any chance of a photograph Sarah to assist with identification?

[Snadger]

Welcome to the vine btw!

[Earthbabe]

Hi Sarah-lou and welcome to the vine. My initial thoughts were also cabbage root fly but I know that doesn't generally produce swollen roots. It just tends to leave it looking like something has eaten it away. I'm sure someone will be able to assist although a photo of the offending item is always handy. I however have not yet mastered that delight.

[Sarah-lou]

Thanks for your replies, I'll have a go at a phot, but as I shoved everything in a big sack I dont't hold out much hope, but will try later todya.

Thanks

Sarah

[Snadger]

In lou of a photo...and you're probably not going to like this...it is very reminicent of clubroot in it's latter stages with the roots having a secondary infestation of millipedes feeding on the dying matter.Initially the roots swell and the plants wilt in warm weather , but towards the end of the season the roots rot and release the spores and secondary organisms move in

Might be worth asking if there is any clubroot on any other allotments?. It's not the end of the world if it is because there are ways you can grow reasonable crops on clubroot infected land.

I know, because I do!

Whatever it is I would burn all the brassica roots!

[Sarah-lou]

Hi,

I think you maybe right! The grubs certainly look like millipedes, what do I do now? Is there a cure and what can I grow on that area of my allotment? I've managed to grow runner beans, sweetcorn, courgettes and marrows this year, plus some leeks and I've now got overwinter onions and garlic in. Will these be affected? Any advise would be greatfully received.

Thanks Sarah-Lou

[Earthbabe]

Clubroot can remain in the soil for quite a number of years I believe. I think I remember reading that liming can help but it is best to wait 2-3 years before planting brassicas in that spot again. Kale is less prone to clubroot than other brassicas. I don't know it there is a cure. Hopefully someone with more knowledge and experience will be able to give you more info and advice. However I would go with Snadger on the burning thing.

[Nicos]

If you are rotating anyway on a 3 or 4 year cycle, then you'll be ok.
Just make sure you put down plenty of lime wherever you put down brassicas, as it does help a little with clubroot.
Someone has suggested a piece of rhubarb planted next to the seedlings helps, so I'm going to try that next year.
Depends how organic you want to be?

You can buy a powder ( forgotten the name just now) which you dip brassica roots into a solution when you plant out which helps too.
If it's in your soil- it will affect the crop wherever you plant brassicas. Just rotate to reduce the effects.
I've got it badly too

[PAULW]

The manager of our allotment has clubroot on his plot and what he does every year is prepare the ground then goes along with his dibber and mark out where he is going to plant his cabbages and a couple of weeks before he plants the cabbages is to water the holes with a solution of ***** fluid this he says steralises the ground before the new plants go in, also if you grow cabbage plants at home then transplant rather than sow seeds in situ the plants should have a good healthy root system which should be able to with stand an attack of clubroot.

[Snadger]

Treat clubroot as challenge and live with it! Once you have it you will never get rid of it. It can live for 12 years in the soil and various weeds such as ''Fat hen'' can keep it active even if no brassica's at all are grown. Forewarned is for-armed!
It is a truly horrible microscopic fungal disease, but with a bit of experimentation and know how you can defeat it!

When you have managed to grow edible brassica's on clubroot infected land you can be proud of what you have achieved and every year you will have more success as you learn how to live with it.

For some reason winter brassica's dont seem to be affected as badly, ie kale , spring cabbage, broccoli.
I personally don't think the fungus it is as active once the temperature drops.
I put apiece of rhubarb leaf at the bottom of each planting hole on my spring cabbage and have escaped clubroot on them....it's the oxalic acid I believe!
There are clubroot resistant cabbages and swedes and there will be resistant cauli's and sprouts in the next few years!
Planting in compost in pots can give plants a good start in life and allow them to establish before being attacked.
There is no legal clubroot formulae, although watering planting hole with Armillatox used to be allowed. You can still get Armillatox but it is only passed for use in cleaning paths etc
So, as I say, treat it as one of lifes challenges, experiment and when you succeed with various brassicas, you can give yourself a pat on the back, knowing you have a chieved something!

PS I burn the roots but compost the tops

[Sarah-lou]

Thank you for all your help. If I forget about brassicas and concentrate on other types of veg, am I right in thinking I should be OK? I've also read somewhere that I should lime the area now and dig in thoroughly ready for next year, but if I do this won't that make the soil too alkaline for any other produce? This has thrown me a bit and maybe I'm panicking slightly, so I'm probably just after a bit of reassurance.

Thanks Sarah-Lou

[Snadger]

Thank you for all your help. If I forget about brassicas and concentrate on other types of veg, am I right in thinking I should be OK? I've also read somewhere that I should lime the area now and dig in thoroughly ready for next year, but if I do this won't that make the soil too alkaline for any other produce? This has thrown me a bit and maybe I'm panicking slightly, so I'm probably just after a bit of reassurance.

Thanks Sarah-Lou

It's only brassicas that are affected by clubroot. It doesn't affect anything else.
If you never grow brassicas again you will have no more clubroot problems.! (Thats once its been confirmed!)
You should not need to lime area if, as you say everything else has thrived apart from brassicas
A good average ph for your lottie is 6.5. If it is below this it wouldnt harm to give land a bit of lime, but don't manure limed land and vice-versa. If you do decide to grow brassicas (and I think you should, as the clubroot resistant cabbage & swede works well and is flavoursome and stands well without splitting!) just lime the area for brassicas.
It is a complex process adjusting the acidity alkalinity. It can lock up trace elements and create as many problems as it cures
Naturally you will need to adjust your crop rotation plan!

Potatoes tend to scab a bit in alkaline soil also!

I personally wouldn't add lime if other veg have grown well this year and concentrate on manuring...but ultimately it's up to you!

[Nicos]

Good reply Snadger...was going to recommend you to LJ as a MOM with replies like that!!

[Sarah-lou]

Thank you Snadger, I'm going to get our allotment secretary to have a look at the weekend at the offending cabbages and see what he thinks. Thanks again for all your advise, it has been gratefully received.

Sarah-Lou