Another interesting Roundup study...

[zazen999]

Dig the perennials out [dock, dandilion etc]
Hoe the annuals off and leave on the soil.

Then cover with cardboard.

If you want to sow carrots and parsnips; just clear an area for them which is weed free.

Most other stuff can be grown by making a hole in the cardboard, planting, filling the hole up with soil, watering and then putting some cardboard back round the hole.

[chris]

Funnily enough, this weekend I was reading about Monsanto (not related to bumped post, just the thread). Read all about 'Agent Orange' & Blue etc - omg. Then went on to looking at their experiments - made me feel sick. Hence, I've decided not to use roundup on my JK infestation.

[Aberdeenplotter]

whatever youdo,do not rotovate. If there are any pernicious weeds such as couchgrass or ground elder which are already difficult to get rid of, rotovating will chop up the roots and the infestation will be multiplied 100 fold. As for using roundup, that's quite a controversial topic. As a one off exercise, I'm personally very much in favour but others have different opinions, in fact strong opinions. If you do decide to go down the round up route, wait till the weeds are growing strongly and apply then. Round up doesn't work in the dormant season.

[Jollyjulia]

Thanks that'll save a lot of effort - just need some good weather!

[SarzWix]

I think you really need to bear in mind the evidence which shows that Round-up locks up minerals in the soil, which are then not available for use by plants which you want to grow. If an entire plot is sprayed with it, then surely that would mean the whole plot will have lost an important element of soil fertility?
It's down to individual choice in the end, but bear in mind that weeds grow happily in poor soil, most veggies don't, and ask what sort of legacy you might be giving yourself...

[Aberdeenplotter]

My first plot when taken on had creeping thistle, couch grass, ground elder, vetch, Dock, dandelion, rosebay willow herb. You name it it was there. I sprayed with industrial strength Round up shortly after I went in and that killed everything bar the willow herb. Since then - 16 years, I've been growing a variety of veg in my plot to show standard ever since without any problems. I wouldn't recommend for a small area or recommend continuous use.

[BertieFox]

I agree that Roundup should only be used as a last resort or in situations where you are not immediately growing food. But I am currently faced with a situation where I am trying to establish a greenhouse site on an area which was full of ivy, brambles, dandelions and heaven knows what else. While it's easy to cut down the top growth, these plants will keep coming back unless you spray. With a couple of applications of glyphosate I know I can clear the ground more or less completely, and then rebuild the soil inside the future greenhouse. Covering the soil with black plastic or cardboard will only set back new growth if left for at least a year, and I've had the experience of uncovering soil like this and having it infested with old weed growth a couple of months later. Use these weedkillers only where appropriate, wear protective gear, and only do it when not growing crops. But these are still wonderful products which make clearing land practical as opposed to impossible.

[zazen999]

That's why you dig the perennials out first.

[Feral007]

Bertie Fox I have to disagree. Generally the weed seedbank in the soil is what makes the stuff come back again, not whether you have used covering or glyphosate.
Currently in our paddock we have solarised, sprayed glyphosate, ploughed, chipped weeds. In all areas except the chipping, the weeds are back, or a comparabley bad weed is in situ.
The only clear area is the chipped area. Seed banks in the soil are wonderful things..........not all weed seeds are wonderful. IMO glyphosate is just another 'today' way of dealing with things. I use it when I have to, to keep the inspector happy. But not because I believe it has any long term good effects.

[SarzWix]

Personally I don't think 'wonderful' is a descriptor I'd use for glyphosate or any other weedkiller. Our ancestors managed perfectly well without it...

[Sheneval]

I agree that Roundup should only be used as a last resort or in situations where you are not immediately growing food. Use these weedkillers only where appropriate, wear protective gear, and only do it when not growing crops. But these are still wonderful products which make clearing land practical as opposed to impossible.

If you google 'Why Glysophate should be Banned' you will find the latest updated research as to the potential detrimental effects this product has on humans.

[Thelma Sanders]

They do work.............it's up to you whether you use them or not, after you've thought about it.

"Thou shalt not use Glyphosate" wasn't in the Commandments last time I looked

[SarzWix]

Neither is 'Thou shalt not drink bleach' but it doesn't mean we all go round swigging it does it?

If there's evidence of it doing harm, then isn't it better to know that before using it, rather than after?

[Thelma Sanders]

I agree, but I did say .........

after you've thought about it.

Final choice has to be up to the individual, after they've read the blurb...............

[BertieFox]

It's important that glyphosate is seen in its proper context, that millions of acres of good agricultural land, parks, roadsides and so on are drenched in the stuff every year. Even if it does have little impact on human health and human life, it destroys our natural environment and biodiversity and aids the development of vast monocultures and encourages genetic engineering of major crop plants.

In comparison, spot using it in the odd corner of a garden is of almost no importance. But I did say, 'Use it as a last resort' and use protective clothing. And I would certainly never use it on the vegetable plot as Monsanto's own research has shown it does NOT 'break down in the soil' immediately but can remain something that impacts on certain crops for at least a year.

BUT there are some situations where there is nothing else you can do.... "Wonderful" was not a good word to use; perhaps I should have said, 'Highly effective'. I realise of course that you can denude an entire plot of weeds and they will be back in six months, as even if your soil wasn't full of long lived weed seeds, they would blow in from miles around. But getting rid of the most stubborn perennials is usually essential in getting on top of a completely overgrown site. You can't always 'dig out' perennials, certainly not on some of the land we have around the edge, which is full of solid clay and stone, and the ruins of old farm buildings. Spraying here just once to kill off the brambles, ivy and such like gives control that would take months of backbreaking work to achieve.

There are many other pesticides and chemicals still in common agricultural and garden use that should be banned before glyphosate, even though in my view it should not be used routinely.