How to remove deep roots of reeds in new overgrown allotment

[samski]

Hi,
I've just taken over an allotment in SE London and it's very overgrown with tall reed grass. Just spent a day digging down and roots go at least 2 foot down. Want to avoid using a pesticide. Current plan is to dig down a couple of feet, clear as many roots as possbile and use a mattock, but will still leave the deepest ones there.

Any advice welcome!?..

Will the reeds just come back? I'm not sure how long I'll have the plot so more about getting a good crop this year and trying to help bring the plot back to use.

Tried attaching pictures but if these dont work this is type of grass http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OZuQgVhjGQ...sMead_reed.jpg
below so you can see how overgrown it is and my first stab at digging out one of the beds.

[bario1]

Ugh... that looks like more work than it's worth if you're not thinking long term! Was that the only available plot? Has it ever been cultivated before?

Welcome to the vine btw... and good luck!

[geepee]

Hi,
I've just taken over an allotment in SE London and it's very overgrown with tall reed grass. Just spent a day digging down and roots go at least 2 foot down. Want to avoid using a pesticide. Current plan is to dig down a couple of feet, clear as many roots as possbile and use a mattock, but will still leave the deepest ones there.

Any advice welcome!?..

Will the reeds just come back? I'm not sure how long I'll have the plot so more about getting a good crop this year and trying to help bring the plot back to use.

Tried attaching pictures but if these dont work this is type of grass http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-OZuQgVhjGQ...sMead_reed.jpg
below so you can see how overgrown it is and my first stab at digging out one of the beds.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]78208[/ATTACH]

OMG springs to mind.....much applause for not wanting to use herbicide....but.....!!!!

Keep digging and digging and digging and then dig some more ,take a little rest and then start digging again........by which time the roots will grow vigourously green and at least you will be able to see where to dig some again ...
Sorry to sound 'Defeatist' but , hey, Nothing is impossible ,just some things take a LOT more effort...!!!!
And then more effort after that ,so on ....
My father used to dig Reeds out of ditch bottoms on the farm,about 30-50 cms deep in the 50 and 60's during the winter months to keep waterways clear, they just grew back more vigorously by spring every year .
Upside is... they make great wildlife habitat...The 'Flags (Tassles) and Pokers look great in flower arrangements.
hope all goes well.
Gp

[veggiechicken]

Would burning them have any effect?

[geepee]

Would burning them have any effect?

Yes ,the effect is ,......it gets rid of all the dead growth , and gives the Reed a fantastic chance to Re Juvinate from a fresh start ...but it wont hurt the roots ....

REEDS ONLY GROW IN 'wet ' GROUND , Water combats fire.

[veggiechicken]

I thought the soil looked wet!!
Welcome Samski - looks like you have a challenging time ahead.

[geepee]

I thought the soil looked wet!!.
Welcome Samski - looks like you have a challenging time ahead.

10/10 for observation VC....you miss Nowt as always ....

[geepee]

BTW ..should have said..... Frogs will love it also..Got the makings of a fantastic wildlife sanctuary.....not sure about a Veg ' patch tho'
Gp

[Guest]

Yes ,the effect is ,......it gets rid of all the dead growth , and gives the Reed a fantastic chance to Re Juvinate from a fresh start ...but it wont hurt the roots ....

REEDS ONLY GROW IN 'wet ' GROUND , Water combats fire.

I have very little experience of reeds but if they only like wet then surely you would need to focus on that first then the digging? . Maybe an investigation hole to see if there pan or other reason. Make a natural pond. French drains. Dig in lots of gravel/ stone. Raised beds.

[Snoop Puss]

Hello and welcome, Samski.

Sorry to sound so negative but that pond that you're digging doesn't bode well... I guess it's a stupid question, but how comes there's so much water there? I guess from the reeds it's very wet ground all year round, but is it recent rainfall or are you only just above the water table? What do the other allotments round about you look like?

[nickdub]

If I was looking to clear that ground I'd be wanting some sort of rotovator for at least 1 year to get the worst of the heavy work done. probably aim to go over it reworking the ground once a month in the summer for 5 or 6 months.

Once the ground was reasonably clear of the worst weeds then possibly plan on growing stuff on a ridge system where the soil is hoed up into mounds leaving gullies between so you can dry it out enough to grow plants successfully.

On the plus side the ground should be very rich, so if you can work it you should get good crops.

[Jungle Jane]

Will the reeds just come back? I'm not sure how long I'll have the plot so more about getting a good crop this year and trying to help bring the plot back to use.

The seeds could lay dormant in the soil for years so they could come back. If you just cut it down it will grow again,get as much root out as you can. Get rid of the feathery seed heads then dig out the grass.

[samski]

Thanks for all the responses - v helpful. Yes low ground - it's located in Thamesmead approx 1k from the Thames (the bit that didn't have concrete poured all over it because it was marshland...). The other plots seem fine though and the other plot holders I've spoken to don't have big problems.

I'm tempted to use some herbicide on the roots that are exposed after I've dug down a few feet, but would something like 'round up root and weed killer' work this time of year? Or at all with the reeds rhizomatic roots? Would a rhizome barrier help or maybe wont do much unless I dig out the whole site by say 4 feet and edge the whole area?

Beyond that I think raised beds / ditches is maybe the way forward, as a trial for this year - that's how previous users of the site seem to have managed it from remaining the shape and structure of the patch. And get on the list for another patch! I do need the exercise!..

[1Bee]

I think they've been outrageous giving you that plot, frankly. Phragmites is a wetland plant - what you've been given as a vegetable plot is actually a silted up pond. I'm sorry I don't have more advice - ask around the other plot holders, drain, drain, drain again.

Good luck!

[Snoop Puss]

I'm tempted to use some herbicide on the roots that are exposed after I've dug down a few feet, but would something like 'round up root and weed killer' work this time of year? Or at all with the reeds rhizomatic roots? Would a rhizome barrier help or maybe wont do much unless I dig out the whole site by say 4 feet and edge the whole area?

Beyond that I think raised beds / ditches is maybe the way forward, as a trial for this year - that's how previous users of the site seem to have managed it from remaining the shape and structure of the patch. And get on the list for another patch! I do need the exercise!..

Have a look at this:
https://www.roundup.com.au/how-roundup-works
It says Round-up is absorbed through leaves. I wouldn't like to say if it's absorbed through roots too, but I once used glyphosate (same stuff, essentially) and although it says there's no residue in the soil, I had a reduced crop the following year. Although this is anecdotal, a Canadian study confirmed that it does impair harvests the year after use. That being the case, I wouldn't like to spray it on roots as you will get a lot in the soil. There's also some controversy over whether or not it is a carcinogen. I've not used it ever since...

If you think you won't be using the patch for long but you're determined to go ahead, make sure you don't waste effort on clearing space you're not going to use. I found your mention of "previous users" in the plural a bit worrying. It may be that the other plot holders don't have the same problems because drainage has been put in, but it's draining into your plot.