Cause for concern - glyphosate

[Forage420]

Firstly, I don't want this to turn into a debate about the safeness of commonly used and sold weed killer in the UK.

For the past ten years I've been growing organically, and it's become increasingly apparent (through conversations and observations) that through sheer laziness and ignorance, people around my site (one two plots away, and one right next to me), are routinely spraying this stuff onto their plot, to avoid having to use more labour intensive methods.

Secondly, I'm not going to be convinced in this thread that glyphosate, or any weed killer for that matter, is safe. It does not and should not form part of the organic garderner's repertoire. If it were the 80s or the 90s it would be more forgivable, but the information is now available to the vast majority to make better and healthier choices.

Thirdly, if I am unhappy about other people using this stuff around me, what choice do I have, other than to leave the site? Don't I have a right to garden with my ethics in tact ? Why should my plot be exposed to this poison if I'm against it? What is the point in me growing anything if I end up with the same filth laden garbage that Monsanto are pushing onto the market as 'safe' ? What about someone taking over a site that has been treated with this stuff? Isn't that pretty selfish?

What should I do next? E-mail the committee? What if some of the committee members are using this stuff and think it is safe and will objective to me asking for it to be banned? What if the people I speak to retaliate ? I have a London plot, and for those not aware, it's not the safest of places, and the not the easiest of places to be understood. I don't want to garden with this stuff in the environment, that's the bottom line.

I need some advice please.

[veggiechicken]

Only you can decide what's right for you in the circumstances. If the product is still legal and your site has not declared itself "organic" you may not have much of a case - but you could ask the question of the committee.

I understand how you feel and would hate it if there was a chance of weedkiller drift onto my crops - and it does happen if plotholders aren't careful.

BTW, any thread that ends up as an argument will be closed so, keep it nice everyone.

[Jungle Jane]

It would be difficult to ban an unbanned product but you should try it’s all you can do,it might be better to have guidelines of use rather than an all out ban to compromise with people,like can not be used within twelve foot from a plot neighbour because of drift risk & can only be applied after 8pm? Are their any totally organic plots around,I wonder what their rules are & do you want some help with an email,we’re all here to help however we can?

[Chestnut]

Round our way, some sites have an ‘organic end’ and a ‘non organic end’ so that people garden in close proximity to those with similar views on choice of gardening practice. Might something like that work on your site?
If is council owned, worth seeing if they have a dedicated organic site, and ask if you could transfer to a plot there when a vacancy becomes available?

[SarrissUK]

Rather than taking the negative approach and ask for it to be banned, which some people on your site might take as criticism.... Maybe you could ask the committee if you could do a short talk and/or an open day of your plot about organic gardening, where people can come and look, and ask questions? Honey rather than lemon and all that

[Jay-ell]

I think that it would be nigh impossible to get the site going Glyphosate free if there are others using it and the site isn't committed to organic methods.

Whilst I understand your feelings about gardening within your ethics and wanting to avoid the spray and drift of somebody elses weedkiller, if you look at it from the point of view of the glyphosate users it's like they're being banned from doing something that is perfectly legal, common place and an accepted horticultural practice because somebody else doesn't like it.

[Greenleaves]

Always difficult, as long as it's sold it will be used, irrespective of the rules. People will just put in different containers or just ignore the rules anyway.

At the moment it is socially acceptable in the main and licensed to be used. I have always had a thing about people burning over the plots but I can't stop it because I dislike it.

In short, I think you will be flogging a dead horse. Good luck and I hope it's resolved amicably

[Forage420]

Woah thanks for the resonses guys. Some really good points, and perhaps I could list them and send it off to the committee? What do you think ? Is that a good idea? Clearly, I need to get the authority on side, so it's likely a bad idea barking at anyone.

A bit of history about my site : it was council run until about 7 years ago, when it became self managed. Unfortunately one of the key committee members uses glyphosate. Yes, suppose my tone could be better, I don't want to be treading on people's toes. There's a risk I might cause myself more problems than it's worth. Soon I'll be putting in an application for for a greenhouse, which I don't want to be rejected.

Still open to more pointers from everyone which will be added to the list..

[Jay-ell]

I don't know which bit of London you live in - some parts are better, some are worse, same as everywhere else.

I think that you are probably going to have to go for many small battles trying to coax people round one at a time - even then you won't get all of them.

A "Weedkillers Bad" argument isn't going to sway anyone, they'll get their hackles up and it will be even harder to convince them otherwise as they simply won't listen to you. People want to know what do they get out of it - "hey don't spray, dig those tap roots out by hand during this heat wave that we're having" is hardly going to sell it to them. People also don't like being preached at or told that the way they've been doing it for years is the wrong way.

If only you could show them some method that reduces the amount they have to water, improves their soil and (at the same time) reduces the amounts of weeds they get and therefore remove the reason for spraying.

Pick your targets, either him next door or the committee member and work on them slowly.

[veggiechicken]

Do you have any like-minded folk on the allotments? Maybe chat around, see who feels strongly about glyphosate (For or against) and see where the balance lies. Maybe best not to be a lone voice but if there are a group of you who can put the case together and have more chance of success.

[Thelma Sanders]

I have always thought that I can only control what happens on my own plot.
I can't, and don't think that I have the right, to control what happens on other people's. They make their own decisions in the same way that I do.

Your plot neighbours may choose to use approved weedkillers, and sprays, but unless you can prove that the chemicals have gone over your plot then you have nothing really, to complain about IMO. They are not affecting your soil if they only spraying their own plot.
Everyone gardens with a method that suits their own circumstances, lack of time, health problems etc do you really think that saying you have to garden this way, as it is the only method I personally agree with is acceptable or friendly?
It may be how you feel, but you have to get people to gradually accept different methods rather than be confrontational. Things are slowly changing, but I don't think you can compel people to change.

[rary]

I don't have an allotment, but if I had a neighbour who was using something I didn't want in my garden like weed killer I would put a barrier up, whither it would be a fence or a hedge or even sacrificial plants to stop wind drift reaching the plants I want, and I would also have a talk with my neighbour, to ask if he could do me a favour and if they are using weed killer could the try to avoid it going onto my plants.
I think you should consider their position and be mannerly and understanding when talking to people about it

[bikermike]

- "hey don't spray, dig those tap roots out by hand during this heat wave that we're having" is hardly going to sell it to them.

Pick your targets, either him next door or the committee member and work on them slowly.

If you told me (as a fully-paid up no-chemicals hippy) to dig out tap-roots in London at the moment, I'd tell you where to shove them. Have you seen the ground at the moment, it's like concrete? (not that I disagree with the sentiment, but after a weekend of trying to make a new raised bed, I think it's gone right through the "its easier because it's dry" and into "there's a reason they make bricks out of this stuff")

to the OP
I wouldn't set too much hope on the committee - if our plot is anything to go by they tend to be old-school alotmenteers and the biggest chemical users. And also put a lot of time into the place, so will not take kindly to being asked to do more

Also, how long have you been there? When I got my plot the letting secretary spoke disparagingly of the previous tenant (who lasted less than one season) "and he had ideas about saving forests" (apparently this is a bad idea?). For better or worse, there seems to be a much higher failure rate amongst those of use who want to use not chemicals than those who do. So wait until you have a bit of staying credibility before going at it. When I say "I'm trying to do no-dig and keep it organic", I get listened to (well, maybe they've just got better at feigning interest) now I've been here for a few seasons.

My neighbour on one side I am certain uses every chemical under the sun. But is far too careful of waste to let the stuff blow out of his plot... On the other, the guy rotivated the marestail, was very pleased with the effects of his home-made weedkiller, and I haven't seen him for a bit and it's all grown back only worse.

[Runtpuppy]

From what I understand, there are two plots on your allotment that use glyphosate and other chemicals. One is right next to yours, and the other a couple of plots away. Looking at the situation, I think the plot right next to you is the more immediate concern since the other one should be some distance away.

If you want an amicable solution that doesn't involve long meetings with the committee and months before anything happens, I'd recommend a 'localised' strategy first, while you prepare for the longer 'battle'.

I wonder if you could have a polite chat with them, and explain your concern about the use of chemicals affecting your allotment since it is right next to theirs. However, you can't just go to them and say 'I don't like it so you shouldn't do it'... that's going to make them dig their heels in.

The reason your neighbour is using chemicals is for convenience. Maybe they don't have time to weed manually, or they are physically unable, or perhaps they just aren't convinced about the benefits of organic growing. Maybe they tried it and got disheartened by the constant effort required to get a decent crop.

I think you might have a better chance of converting them if you maybe offered to help them weed once a week? That way, they still have the convenience they sought with the weedkillers, aren't being told what they should be doing on their own plot, and get the healthier/safer option.

Who knows, once they see that it's possible to be weed-free without weedkillers, you might actually convert them to the organic way.

[bikermike]

Two other quick thoughts - you could point out to him that any overspray is wasting his money (that stuff isn't cheap)
could you suggest a net barrier to catch the overspray - if it's put next to his crops, it'll catch the otherwise "wasted" weedkiller and it will dribble back onto his soil.

(If you are really lucky, it'll rot the net and you can then ask him if the thinks it's a good idea to put it on his crops...)